Yeat another way to go USB into Naim DAC

Surely that's the same as the Hiface - just use a BNC male to male coupler ?

James

Yes thanks: I think you're right - my only thoughts were that it was smaller and would sit on my Fraim behind the Naim DAC - the hiFace EVO looks a bit ugly and I'm wondering how I can put it out of sight to satisfy she who must be satisfied. I really only need a BNC coax inteface and the hi-Face has lots of extra interfaces that I don't really need. My computer is about 2 metres form the DAC so I wanted a USB cable to cover most of this distance rather than a long a S/PDIF cable.

I prefer the sound from Mac/hiFace more than a Yamaha CD/HD used a transport and iTunes is much easier to use than the horrible Yamaha interface. I'm so impressed with the Mac/hiFace that it has liberated my CDX2 to become the source for my second late night system (Staxophone). I just wish the hiFace EVO was a bit more discrete.

I thought the Evo could be sited behind the DAC - its just the PSU you'll need to hide. Looks a good solution.

James

Look at the state of it, that there is 4 quids worth of kit in a box.

That's a serious amount of money for a piece of kit of uncertain provenance and performance - are you not better just hanging onto to your cash until NAIM do it right?

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
That's a serious amount of money for a piece of kit of uncertain provenance and performance - are you not better just hanging onto to your cash until NAIM do it right?

I could wait for the UnitiServe, but doesn't really do all I want and uses MS software, which I like to avoid (I have my reasons).

My MacBook Pro does 90% of what I want; I can dedicated it to music and expand it using a firewire drive. Like my Naim DAC, don't need a streamer: heard Linn Akurate and didn't like it despite being a Linn fan. If Naim DAC had Bluetooth interface then I'd just use it - this was how I used a Chord DAC and it worked a treat: a superb DAC, but it isn't Naim. I've borrowed a hiFace and it sounds just great (as good as USB stick); I think conversion from USB to S/PDIF should be adjacent to DAC rather than the computer - this is what the EVO does: just thought it looked a bit bulky to fit nicely on the Fraim.

Not sure what you mean by doing it right - if Naim released a 2m cable with S/PDIF at one end and USB at the other then I'd be very very interested.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
Look at the state of it, that there is 4 quids worth of kit in a box.

It uses a proprietary ASIC - no idea how much that costs, but probably not a lot. The April Music Stello U2 is another possibility, which uses the Tenor TE7022L chip to do the conversion. Most use the TAS1020 or PCM27047 - no idea what difference this makes.

There is a more basic version of Audiophilio which looks better value - no difference in performance, just functionality.

Wavelength just started to ship their asyncronous USB to S/PDIF converter called Wavelink which can now handle 24/192. The earlier prototype could "only" handle 24/96.

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:


Not sure what you mean by doing it right - if Naim released a 2m cable with S/PDIF at one end and USB at the other then I'd be very very interested.

'Doing it right' for me would include a solution which got digital data to the DAC without any intervening conversion to S/PDIF, or running the gamut of equalisers that need to be turned off, drivers that need to be installed and sound different, cables that sound different, USB-S/PDIF converters that sound different with power supplies that sound different, mixers that need to be bypassed and so on.

Fair enough you didn't like the Linn Akurate, but that doesn't mean that NAIM couldn't put their own DAC on a network properly.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
Fair enough you didn't like the Linn Akurate, but that doesn't mean that NAIM couldn't put their own DAC on a network properly.

So you don't want a DAC ... you want a higher end HDX or UnitiQute (without pre/power amps). Which is completely different from this discussion!

It's like comparing a integrated DAC and CD transport to separate transport and DAC. Different companies think the two solutions work better or worse than the other.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
... you want a higher end HDX or UnitiQute (without pre/power amps). Which is completely different from this discussion!

Eloise

No I don't and no it isn't!

No I don't because I don't want a HDD or a DAB/FM Tuner or the ability to serve.

No it isn't a different discussion because this discussion is about how to get music data from a pc (presumably on a network) to a DAC.

Just imagine taking the wee bit of the UnitiQute that is to do with Ethernet connectivity and putting it and associated rendering software inside the DAC. Still keep the S/PDIF inputs for legacy sources like CDs that need them.

Then the DAC would be on your network and still be a hub for other sources.

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
... you want a higher end HDX or UnitiQute (without pre/power amps). Which is completely different from this discussion!

Eloise

No I don't and no it isn't!

Well we'll have to disagree here - your description is closer to a HDX (or UnitiQute) than to the facilities a DAC should provide.

quote:

No it isn't a different discussion because this discussion is about how to get music data from a pc (presumably on a network) to a DAC.

Why do you assume that a computer is on a network. Actually some people deliberately remove the networking to allow the computer to run without risk of viruses (a potential problem) without running anti-virus software. The discussion is actually about getting audio froma computer to an SPDIF input DAC without using a network (IMO).

quote:

Just imagine taking the wee bit of the UnitiQute that is to do with Ethernet connectivity and putting it and associated rendering software inside the DAC. Still keep the S/PDIF inputs for legacy sources like CDs that need them.

Then the DAC would be on your network and still be a hub for other sources.

I imagine Naim have kept network away from the DAC for similar reasons to keeping USB away from the DAC - avoiding the potential for computer PSUs to interfere with the use of the DAC. And I think you'll find that the "wee bit" of the UnitiQute responsible for Ethernet is more like 75% of it - especially if you approach it the other way and first remove the pre and power amp sections.

As I hope has come across in my writing - there is nothing wrong with wanting a one box solution - but if you add Ethernet (and all the associated capabilities) to a DAC then it is no longer a DAC!

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:
...
Just imagine taking the wee bit of the UnitiQute that is to do with Ethernet connectivity and putting it and associated rendering software inside the DAC. ...

That little bolded sentence turns it from a DAC into mediaplayer with an incorporated DAC.

You will want it to interpret all kinds of codecs?!

You might want it to allow you to browse and select your music on the PC/NAS, to have it control the playback of your music?
If not? What is it supposed to capture from the network?
Is it supposed to be a UPnP media renderer?

I have some difficulties to comprehend what this device would actually be and do.

-
aleg

quote:

Originally posted by Aleg:
That little bolded sentence turns it from a DAC into mediaplayer with an incorporated DAC.

Or a DAC with an incorporated mediaplayer. A DAC in a general sense is anything that takes a digital sourec and converts it to analogue; a DAC doesn't have to have S/PDIF inputs.

quote:

You will want it to interpret all kinds of codecs?!

WAV would do (Though I can't imagine others being a problem since mickey mouse devices from Western Digital et al can manage)

quote:

You might want it to allow you to browse and select your music on the PC/NAS, to have it control the playback of your music?

Nope. Browsing would be via any number of possible things also connected to the network - iphones/pads/pcs whatever was handy.

quote:

If not? What is it supposed to capture from the network?

Whatever whatever is serving it has been told to serve!

quote:

Is it supposed to be a UPnP media renderer?

Yep.
But with S/PDIF input for legacy products like CD players/TVs etc. The Logitech Transporter works something like this, though it's not UPnP.

quote:

I have some difficulties to comprehend what this device would actually be and do.

Take a UnitiServe. NAIm ripping, NAIM storage, NAIM written UPnP Server. Controllable with a NAIM written control app. Take a NAIM DAC. The best DAC they do. Add whatever you need to the DAC to connect it to the network. Total NAIM all the way. No mish-mash of 3rd party bits of software, hardware, drivers, updates, equalisers, system setting, or cables. No worries.

Take a look at Resolution Audio's Pont Neuf: this is a ySB dongle that appears to the PC as USB Audio (like most DACs) but communicates with their Cantata CD player/DAC/streamer via Ethernet (wired but can incorporate wireless bridge). Control is in the computer via standard app (iTunes / Foobar / J.River / etc).

Not relevant to a Naim DAC but an example of another way the problem could be solved.

Eloise

Tourist: "Can you tell me the way to Dublin?"

Irishman: "If I wanted to go to Dublin I wouldn't start from here".

quote:

Originally posted by likesmusic:

Take a UnitiServe. NAIm ripping, NAIM storage, NAIM written UPnP Server. Controllable with a NAIM written control app. Take a NAIM DAC. The best DAC they do. Add whatever you need to the DAC to connect it to the network. Total NAIM all the way. No mish-mash of 3rd party bits of software, hardware, drivers, updates, equalisers, system setting, or cables. No worries.

So what happens when the "network" input is no longer relevant? What do you do when the product is obsoleted and no longer has firmware updates to handle the latest codecs?

The machine you are dreaming of would be great now, but fairly unusable years down the road.

The great thing about a DAConly is that you can use ANY media player, codec, storage device, streaming protocol etc, that you want, for years and years to come.

My buddy has a nice Audio Note DAC that is about 10 years old and still making great music. I am hoping for the same with my Naim DAC.

Until spdif is longer used in hifi, the Naim DAC, as it stands now, will be fully relevant.

If you really want to use ONLY Naim, you will need to get a Uniserve/Cute.

-Patrick

I think they should incorporate a USB input and a ADC into the LP12 so we can digitize our vinyl without the need of 3rd party software or cables.

Does the sound of this make the Naim DAC approach make more sense?

-patrick

quote:

No it isn't a different discussion because this discussion is about how to get music data from a pc (presumably on a network) to a DAC.

No I don't want to use an IP network - whilst I'm playing music. I don't mind using Gracenote for album titles when ripping, but once that's done the wireless LAN goes off and the connection to my home network is bannished. Definitely no RJ45 cables. I don't want a streamer or NAS; I simply want a music transport as a source to my Naim DAC. A bit like my Yamaha HD1300, but with more space and a decent user interface. My other requirement is no Microsoft anything in my system.

What I'm after is a completely Ethernet and Optical free way of getting music from my computer (MacBook Pro) to my Naim DAC. Just asking if anybody has tried any of these alternatives to the hiFace.

I know you can use a streamer, but I have less than zero interest in doing that. If Naim makes one for those that want it great, but it is not what I'm looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
So what happens when the "network" input is no longer relevant? What do you do when the product is obsoleted and no longer has firmware updates to handle the latest codecs?

Any half decent UPnP server could transcode to PCM or whatever on the fly.

I was using the UnitiServe to attempt to illustrate my point. I woudn't personally want a UnitiServe - I'd rather use my own storage (until cloud storage becomes viable). I'd happily buy NAIM UPnP Server software though, if they unbundled it, and I'd also gladly buy their ripping software if they unbundled it and could demonstrate it was in anyway better than DBPoweramp.

I just think it is a huge messy kludge to have to use a USB to S/PDIF converter to get data from a hard drive into a NAIM DAC. And, if folk on here are to be believed, such a solution is sensitive to cables, power supplies, drivers,media center settings, operating systems, updates and more hassle than I want to know about. If you download some music from the NAIM cd store it gets perhaps half way across the world utterly unchanged using appropriate network protocols. Why is the last few feet to the DAC so difficult!? All we're talking about is a file transfer to the memory inside the DAC.

Why don't you try, just as an experiment, configuring your foobar as a UPnP Server and using PlugPlayer on your iPhone as a renderer feeding your DAC. (You'll need to edit the PlugPlayer Streaming Profile in foobar Preferences, otherwise it will transcode to .mp3.) Then imagine how nice it would be if the DAC could be streamed to without the iPhone/Plugplayer.

You could go the other way of course and get really retro .. how about a USB to inverse RIAA converter so you could play into your pre-amps moving coil input ...

I think Eloise and Patrick understand what I'm after - the hiFace EVO might be fine if it fits behind the Naim DAC or my Fraim.

quote:

just think it is a huge messy kludge to have

to have TCP/IP, Ethernet or UPnP - I don't have an iPhone - I'm not that keen on remote controls. Depends how you look at it; both ways have merits, but I prefer my way.

If Naim released the device you are after I bet it would have some form of embedded Windows in it to run the junk like the IP stack, UPnP etc., I don't want any of that on my DAC. UPnP will dead and buried in a year - they'll be some much better protocol (wouldn't be hard).

Anybody who knows me, knows I have very good reason never to buy from Microsoft - so any device that uses Windows is not suitable for me.

Fair enough. It just seemed like a lot of money to spend on an uncertain 3rd party solution, when I'm sure NAIM will address this requirement shortly.

Naim must include a proper async protocol in their next dac.