Hi,
Recently bought a 2nd hand 82 to replace my 42.5. As you can imagine, the difference was noticable ( 
) and, all in all, I feel I am one step closer to a 'transparent' system.
However, something is wrong. The problem is that I can't really put my finger on what it is that is wrong. I have moved the speakers (Kabers) too and fro , ditto relative position of the various boxes (82:Hi / 250 ) driving my system (LP12:Valhalah:Ittok:Klyde / Numerik) but it still doesn't sound right.
There are many posts on the forum as to what can be tinkered with; everything from (to my mind) ridiculously expensive stands, to scotchbrite, so there would seem to be no shortage of ideas. Like many people, I have to balance my "hi-fi" time with work and family and my question is, quite simply, how do I go about getting the system to sound right given limited amounts of time. This is strictly a set-up question. Comments about the 82 highlighting limitations in my sources or my need to spend money on X should be seen as out of scope.
Does anyone have any views on a systematic way to approach setting up, especially as far as what I should be listening for given specific changes and suggestions as to which records (LP or CD)highlight these changes.
I am sure that many people are in the same boat. We spend a weekend tweeking, but are really not sure that there is an improvement, or we kid ourselves that there is an improvement, even though someone else may think otherwise. A week later we do the same thing again.
/david
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by ken c
i know its hard, but it would be useful for you to say what precisely you feel is wrong. also, do you still have the 42.5? if so, does the "problem" disappear when you use this instead?
there is obviously the warm-up issue for the 82, but if you have been running it for a while, and its second hand anyway, then i doubt this is an issue.
its also worth bearing in mind that the 82 is much more revealing that the 42.5, so poor sources will be laid bare.
i doubt if tweaking is what you need. from what you say, sounds like a more fundamental issue. depending on how old the 82 is, it may simply required service.
do you have a friendly dealer that you are loyal to that can perhaps help you out? e.g. swap the 82, etc etc
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
David,
I think we will all be guessing unless you can help out a bit with why you are unhappy with the system. I assume that you've got all the cable connections correct and that speaker cables are in the right phase for starters.
One thing I will say (and very much keeping in mind Paul Stephenson's comments yesterday), the time I was least happy with my system(starting from Maranz CD/32.5/160 going to CDSII/52/250) was when I had CDI/82/hi/250/sbls. I bought the 82 because it was clearly more refined than the 72, but I found the sound of the 82 with 1 hicap, far too laid back for my liking, and it sounded as if the midrange was recessed, as if there was a gap in the sound. If you can afford a a second 2nd hand hicap (£350ish), the difference is very significant and removes alot of this.
David
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by DIL
Further info.
The 82 is 3 years old. The single HiCap powering it is a lot older so is probably due for a re-cap. Cables etc. are correct as far as direction and polarity.
I have not tried switching back to the 42.5, but will do that (Ken C's suggestion as far as isolating the 'problem.')
What I was looking for was suggestions as to how to systematically set up the system. Unfortunately, most, if not all, posts concerning upgrades / tweaking tend to use very subjective terminology; to take the comments of David H-M (With appologies) "laid back", "recessed." Maybe hi-fi (or even music / live or otherwise) is subjective, but that should not mean to say that it is possible to approach the problem of setting up a system so that it sounds good in an objective manner.
/david
PS.
I will listen tonight and see if I can describe, hopefully objectivelywhat I percieve as the problem.
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by ken c
What I was looking for was suggestions as to how to systematically set up the system. ok, i assume the 82 is as far away from the hicap and 250 as the cables will allow. if you have 2 racks (what rack(s) do you have??) put the "sources" on one and the power components (hicap/250) on the other.
ensure that you are using naim speaker cables and intercinnects and make sure the speaker cables are not coiled and are not intertwined with signal cables. if you can plug the 250 and hicap into the same socket, all the better.
have u other sources than the lp12? how long was the lp12 reset? you see it could be the 82 is showing that your lp12 needs attention? what tables is the lp12 sitting on? how old is your cartridge? etc etc
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by ken c
david legge: this may not be too relevant or helpful to you at this time, but i guess i will say it anyway since it relates to my own experiences.
basically, i do not believe you can tweak a system that isnt sounding right into playing ball. i believe tweaking is about getting the last ounce (or gram) of a system that is sounding OK in the first place -- hence the request for you to say what you think is wrong with your system.
i have found that whenever i start being over concerned with tweaking, invariably, there is something more fundamental wrong with my system that tweaking alone will not resolve. when my system is in full song, i rarely feel like tweaking at all. this doesnt mean i dont, it just means when i do, its for fun, and not under duress.
i assumed from your first message that you were not delighted with the 82. assuming this is not a service problem, i am looking fwd to answers to some of the questions we asked you and also the results of your further experimentation...
by the way, the 82 is a fabulous preamp, even with 1 hicap... i know because i owned it for quite a few years. you should therefore be in heaven!!
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by ken c
quote:
It is subjective, we'll just have to disagree about this. I would add that the overall experience is dependent on the rest of the system. A CDSII into 82/hi is very different to CDI into 82/hi.
i agree 100% with the subjective bit. to some extent, it cannot be gainsaid. but you are right, i should have been more specific with the source. ok, here goes. i have owned lp12/aro/troika and cd2 into 82/hicap/250 and IBL on soundstyle tripods -- and it was fabulous. but even this is "subjective" also 
i actually believe there is a fundamental naim sound that i suspect all naim owners buy into -- in which case preferences start becoming rather less "subjective", and more universal, i guess
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by David Hobbs-Mallyon
I know the last time I mentioned this on the old forum it wsn't popular. But as Ken says everyone gets hooked by certain aspects of Naim and probably considers these important.
To my ears there are aspects I hear in the 72/hi and 52/sc (and the Nait if I remember correctly)which don't sound the same on the 82/hi, but sound OK with 82/2xhi or 82/sc.
I was never in heaven with the 82/hi. 72/hi yes, 82/2xhi yes, 52/sc definitely.
David
Posted on: 15 August 2001 by ken c
I was never in heaven with the 82/hi. 72/hi yes, 82/2xhi yes, 52/sc definitelydavid, here is a strange one for you.
i was very happy with 82/1xhicap
i was never happy with 82/2xhicap 
i was very happy with 82/supercap
goes without saying, i am very happy with 52/supercap
now thats getting really "subjective", yeh?? i have since discovered why the 2 hicaps never got me into the music.
enjoy
ken
