High end american gear

Posted by: Nic Peeling on 25 April 2001

I happened to be visiting one of my two favourite HiFi dealers - John Roberts at Midland Audio Exchange in Kidderminster (to look at Pagode racks) and he was doing a demo for himself of the new Krell Integrated KAV 300 iL (£3690). It was fed by a Mark Levinson integrated CD No39 (£4995), fed into Canadian speakers - Verity Fidelio (£7000), using Siltech cables throughout.

To me the sound was unlistenable - it was so bright it made my ears bleed. John made no comment, but said I might be interested in hearing the system with the Mark Levinson 383 Integrated amp (£5500). The difference was extreme - the sound lost it terrible brightness. Then, as I sat listening to some music I realised how good the system sounded ... and this is the interesting point - to me it had a very similar sound to my Naim equipment. Great timing, very musical, plus a very nice soundstage thrown back behing the speakers (not as "in your face" as my Naim kit). For me this was the first time I have heard a system with non-Naim amplification that I really liked. This was a system I felt I might be able to live with, at a price that is less than the very top-end of the Naim line. Nice to see that some high-end US gear has moved so much towards my personal tastes.

Nic P

Posted on: 25 April 2001 by MarkEJ
Chris Thomas' review of the No.39 in one of the early issues of HiFi+. A man to trust given his history. His views broadly concur with yours.

Best;

Mark

(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)

Posted on: 25 April 2001 by Dev B
I have always liked ML gear, every time I have heard a ML system I have never been disappointed. It seems to combine a good measure of flat and round earth qualities.

One of the best sounds I ever heard was a full Levinson system with Final electrostatic speakers.

Open minded Dev

(who loves his Naim system)

Posted on: 25 April 2001 by bam
I am the proud owner of a No39 and I really like it. To me, it delivers it all without excuses and without eccentric fussiness. Also, very well-built and has a useful feature set.
I listened to rivals before I bought including Naim and Krell. Was able to do a Naim comparison with it at the Cornflake Shop.
Posted on: 25 April 2001 by Dev B
Bam,

What persuaded you to go with the No 39 (I nearly did before the CDS2) did you compare with CDS2 what did you think?

Go on tell us more about your dem (amps/speakers). Talking Naim all the time is a yawn.

Dev

Posted on: 26 April 2001 by Scott Mckenzie
Nic,

I live in Kidderminster and have heard about Midland Audio Exchange before, however I am totally unaware where it is. Could you please let me know as I may pop in and have a look.

Cheers in advance

Scott

Posted on: 26 April 2001 by Don Atkinson
I visited John Roberts about 2 months ago to listen to some Mark Levinson equipment. Very similar to yours, 39CD, 380S pre, 335 power and those Verity Fidelio 'speakers.

Very enjoyable sound with deep, powerful, detailed bass and no hint of brightness in the treble. However, for some reason I can't quite put a finger on, I lost interest in what I was listening to about half way through the dem. This happened a couple of years ago, but much sooner in the dem and was only revived with a full blown reference system complete with 33 power amps big grin

The London hifi show had a good dem by Path using the new 436 power mono amps and Revel Salon speakers and this is what I had really hoped to hear at MAX. Seems like the 436s are in very short supply so had to use the 335s to 'get an idea'. Perhaps this is similar to listening to a 250 to get an idea of a 500. But it was enjoyable roll eyes

Cheers

Don

Posted on: 27 April 2001 by bam
DevB,
Am I allowed to espouse the virtues of non-Naim gear and still maintain any credibility on this forum? eek Well, my only excuse is my dedicated pursuit of great music regardless of manufacturer.

I bought the No39 a couple of years ago. To be frank (and embarrassed about my memory) I can't remember the exact system that I heard it on. It was the Cornflake shops best amp/speaker combo (not Naim) and I compared it with a CDX as the CDS2 was not available at the time. The Cornflake folk were completely impartial and didn't try to tell me which sounded better - unlike some dealers!

I also visited "Oranges and Lemons" in London but they appeared to be highly Naim biased shop so all I could do was hear a complete Naim system with CDX and 250s and I can't remember which Naim speakers. Graham's Hifi didn't have anything I wanted to hear and were terribly crowded when I visited.

In addition I borrowed a Krell KAV series CD from a weird shop in Oxford. I had fully expected to be completely bowled over by it...but alas no. Even after a week of warm-up it sounded far too dry and a little flat to me. It had an intriguing transparency and neutrality about it but left me wanting for more.

Back to the No39 vs CDX. My overwhelming criteria was how convincing the sound was. The CDX sounded more closed, less transparent and slightly contrived dynamically compared with the No39. It was night and day to my ears. The No39 had it all - music, detail, natural dynamics, soundstaging and emotional communication.

In addition, I prefered the feature set, build quality, styling and the loading mechanism of the Levinson. The manual door, magnetic puck, springs and double-sided sticky-tape ethos of the Naim didn't appeal to me at these prices.

I can't speak for ML amps or pre-amps. I've never heard any.

BAM
(anticipating condemnation and accusations of deafness)

Posted on: 27 April 2001 by Tony L
quote:
I have always liked ML gear, every time I have heard a ML system I have never been disappointed. It seems to combine a good measure of flat and round earth qualities.

I would probably go along with this too, certainly Levinson gear is pretty much the only US electronics that I would entertain, I have so far found them a little bright though. I have certainly found the likes of Audio Research and Krell to be absolutely useless from a musical perspective.

American speakers are bizarre too, take Martin Logan for example, fabulous electrostatic panels married to the kind of sloppy out of tune bass that would be expected in a cheap home cinema rig. Though it has to be taken into account that the Americans produced all those classic Acoustic Research speakers of the 60s and 70s, lovely wall proximity infinite baffle speakers… yes the Americans actually had a marvellous flat earth speaker in about 1965!

Turntables. Its great that US high end is so pro analogue, plenty of decks, arms, cartridges, record cleaners etc. Can't argue with them at all here.

Tony.

Posted on: 27 April 2001 by P
Bam

Care to mention the rest of your set up?

I'm beginning to wonder why you're involved here.

Do you own any Naim gear?

Just beginning to wonder

P.

Posted on: 28 April 2001 by Bob Edwards
Bam--

At least you listened for yourself !

My experience was comparing my (old) CD2 with the 39; first through a store system of ML380 and 336 into B&W 802 Nautilus. The 39 was noticeably smoother and more detailed, the CD2 was more muscular sounding and much more in tune. At home, through a 32.5/Hicap/250/ProAc R2.5 the differences remained but the CD2 closed the gap in terms of smoothness--probably a case of being in a more synergistic system.

The sales guys at the shop were astonished--they commented that they didn't expect the CD2 to be at all competitive, let alone demonstrably better in several areas.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light !