Foobar/WASAPI/HiFace vs Logitech Transporter

Posted by: AMA on 20 July 2010

Sometime ago I have installed WASAPI drivers for Foobar and start testing Hiface against my old reference Logitech Transporter dig out.

Unlike the previous tests HiFace was surprisingly better: a bit more open, better clarity and much fuller and punchy bass. I used various permutation with digital cables including Naim DC1 -- the same result and vastly defined by source rather than cable.

The differences since the last tests (TP was better than HiFace at that time) are: Slim Serve upgrade to 7.5.1 (possibly detrimental?), DS --> WASAPI for Foobar (possibly improvement?), I bought MusicWorks and redressed power cables behind the rack (not touching floor, not touching each other, intersecting in the air at 90 degree, suspension -- and all that staff) -- this definitely improved the sound (I did not expect such a big effect) and possibly made my system more revealing.

I did not find any settings in Slim Server or TP software which can possibly control the digital output.

In WASAPI driver for Foobar the only variable is bitdepth which I set to 24 bit (am I right?).

I used to believe TP is superior to HiFace (engineering wise).

It's a bit surprising to me -- possibly I missed something?
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by AMA
Oh, nearly missed the bit -- I wish Andy would listen for my system Big Grin
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by Andy S
Don't worry AMA, I'm watching Winker

I also have a date for James N to come over to my house and try some stuff out Smile
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by DHT
I have ordered an Evo ,not sure when it will arrive, but I have hopes it wil be even better than the hiface!
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by AMA
DHT, what is Evo?
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by BigH47


?

I think it might be this though.
M2Tech 'EVO' usb/spdif converter
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by james n
Andy - i'll have my DAC202 with me by then so it'll be even easier to check bit transparency with different software players on the Mac.

James
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by AMA
Interesting link to Evo.

Did they start the sales and what is the retail price?
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by js
All good stuff but you guys should really start using wav files if your going to be critical about interfaces.

AMA, unless you have XP, Wasapi exclusive should always be preferred to ASIO or kernal which still need to use wasapi in Vista or 7. I guess it's all bit perfect but I still prefer the fewest interfaces or steps. I also wouldn't automatically assume that a TP was better than a SB Touch or Sonos as player. It's been so long since I've heard one that I can't comment directly.
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by Andy S
quote:
Originally posted by js:
All good stuff but you guys should really start using wav files if your going to be critical about interfaces.
Don't worry, that's on my list of trials with James here...
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by Andy S
quote:
Originally posted by james n:
Andy - i'll have my DAC202 with me by then so it'll be even easier to check bit transparency with different software players on the Mac.

James
Great stuff James - I'm looking forward to it - not been a nerdy hi-fi geek for years. Ms S is away with friends for the weekend, so we will have the house and system to ourselves Smile

Can you also bring any CDs you need ripped to compare (unless already on the Mac) and any cables you may have too please (only have a cheapo RCA->Din cable, 1m Chord optical and 1m cheapo electrical SPDIF cable).
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by AMA
quote:
I also wouldn't automatically assume that a TP was better than a SB Touch or Sonos as player.

Don't know for Touch and Sonos but TP was way better than SB3 through dig out. Actually TP was better than hiface in the last trial. Now it's changed -- and very audibly.
I guess this is WASAPI who did it over DS and over TP. It changed the game -- now PC/HiFace is my best digital steamer. And possibly there is room for further improvement: like HiFace Evo, INT202, UnitiServe.

I guess why do I need Naim streamer if Hiface can be that good Confused

js, did you carefully check Foobar/WASAPI/HiFace against HDX?
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by Guido Fawkes
quote:
Originally posted by BigH47:


?

I think it might be this though.
M2Tech 'EVO' usb/spdif converter
Will it drive my system OK - I'm in the EVO queue
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by js
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
quote:
I also wouldn't automatically assume that a TP was better than a SB Touch or Sonos as player.

Don't know for Touch and Sonos but TP was way better than SB3 through dig out. Actually TP was better than hiface in the last trial. Now it's changed -- and very audibly.
I guess this is WASAPI who did it over DS and over TP. It changed the game -- now PC/HiFace is my best digital steamer. And possibly there is room for further improvement: like HiFace Evo, INT202, UnitiServe.

I guess why do I need Naim streamer if Hiface can be that good Confused

js, did you carefully check Foobar/WASAPI/HiFace against HDX?
No, but I've heard a 202 and since you bring it up, I know that I personally wouldn't compare a lossless anything to a Naim wav rip. Razz I think foobar is a great sounding program with wav but if I can't easily use it, it's certainly not the player for me. For instance, how do you know that the TP isn't the better server if it doesn't have to stress it's tiny memory and processor by decoding FLAC? I'm not suggesting it is either but there are to many variables for absolutes.
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by DHT
AMA yes the new M2Tech 'EVO' it looks really interesting but speaking to the Uk guy today there won't be many around until after the autumn.
Also you need to use an external power supply with it,either battery or linear , it can't be run from the usb socket.
i2s ,ST optical, an external wordclock, lots of possibilities.
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by js
I here it voltage tolerant so it must also have it's own regulation. Smile
Posted on: 20 July 2010 by AMA
js, this wav vs flac speculation is a bit queer.

I will make a test on Foobar between wav and flac and see if it's really audible.

It certainly depends on PC performance but my laptop is up to modern specs and I believe it will not run the sweat from FLAC decoder.

Even if there is a difference -- it should be clearly pronounced to justify the cost difference between Hiface (or Evo) and UnitiServe Winker
Posted on: 21 July 2010 by DHT
quote:
Originally posted by js:
I here it voltage tolerant so it must also have it's own regulation. Smile

I checked with Keith at Purite and it is voltage tolerant, you can use a 7.2 or 10.8 lithium or 9volt alkaline , or a 9 volt ( M2Tech recommend linear ) power supply.
Posted on: 21 July 2010 by ferenc
quote:
Originally posted by DHT:
quote:
Originally posted by js:
I here it voltage tolerant so it must also have it's own regulation. Smile

I checked with Keith at Purite and it is voltage tolerant, you can use a 7.2 or 10.8 lithium or 9volt alkaline , or a 9 volt ( M2Tech recommend linear ) power supply.


I am using a 12V/3A Paul Hynes linear PS with the EVO at the moment, and soon hope to try NAPSC as well, according to js's suggestion. Smile

I like the Evo a lot with nDAC/XPS2, a real upgrade of the original HiFace
Posted on: 21 July 2010 by js
SmileMight as well build to 12v again if that's do-able. We've been finding top V available is often best in these scenarios.
Posted on: 23 July 2010 by AMA
quote:
I like the Evo a lot with nDAC/XPS2, a real upgrade of the original HiFace

Ok, predictable. But what do you think of Evo vs INT202?
Posted on: 23 July 2010 by ferenc
quote:
Originally posted by AMA:
quote:
I like the Evo a lot with nDAC/XPS2, a real upgrade of the original HiFace

Ok, predictable. But what do you think of Evo vs INT202?


Do not know, when I had the Weiss DAC2 I tried it against the original HiFace, and I liked both on their own ways, it will be very much system dependent what you prefer.

The Evo's sound is a bit dependent on the power supply too, which is included in the INT202 as can be powered from Firewire or you can buy an external one from Weiss. Evo can not be powered from the computer or from USB at all. Actually I tried with the cheapest multi voltage Tesco wall wart, and was not too bad even against the Pual Hynes much more expensive linear power supply. Using the Evo with the Vaunix USB hub and from the Paul Hynes or other high quality linear power supply can be as good as anything else out there for any price.