Is it my ears??? (sbl vs. allae)

Hallo Thorsten,

ich würd mir da mal keine Sorgen machen!

SBLs are fabulous speakers, IMO. I think the reason they are similarly priced to allaes does not so much reflect a similarity in sound quality - it's more that the SBLs are on their way out and inflation is taking its toll, i.e. Naim simply have to sell the allae for a bit more (in relative terms). It's aesthetics, too - the curved top is probably more costly.

Apart from that, a properly installed system in your home should sound much better than the same system at the dealer's. In the shop they have to keep moving electronics and speakers around for dems, which means they're constantly taking components from the mains, "upsetting the fragile crystalline structure in the cables" and so on.

Check the used gear sections at audiomap.com and audiomarkt.de - I remember some months ago there were a good number of s/h SBLs being sold at very reasonable prices.

Thomas

As a newbe to SBLs, I did demo the Allaes as a next logical step, but I to was disappointed. They sounded OK but not the great leap over the Credos that I was expecting. But when I demoed the SBLs it didn't take me long to decide they were for me and I'm very happy with them. Now got to get rid of the Credos (any offers).

I'm disappointed that Naim are discontinuing them, but realise things have to move on.

Tim

That'll get you the X overs!!

Yet another comparison where the model with the dealer-unfriendly sealant wins out.

Perhaps the extra hassle is worth it.

I am sorry to say that but Naim is not a great spakers'builder....
Despite their electronics are wonderful, Nbl are for me just an exception.
There are better speakers at the price of the Credos , for instance , Dynaudio1.3 Mk2 (really, really better).
The SBL are nice s/h speakers because there are not very easy to drive, and really cheap, but for the same price New BW 804 are better value than New SBL...
Concerning, the DBL, I won't say anything: I just don't like them!!!
The NBL were magic, perhaps more than that (Someone is selling a pair on Naim Market £4000, I am so sad not to be rich enough..)

Charles

B&W god give me strength

If allaes take forever to run in and settle maybe the only guys who've really heard them perform at their best are the crew at Salisbury.

And Garyi's right about the other thing...B&W are a sad, woeful box of nothing very much


Nice veneer/woodworking tho

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Perhaps the extra hassle is worth it.

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Question not! They are. Beleive me. Mine were wobbling the floor, and churning my stomach this afternoon. There was so much bass coming from Groov Armada I had to place something on top of the CD door to stop it rattling! All that and no port chuffing**

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I am sorry to say that but Naim is not a great spakers'builder....

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Jeez Chuck, don't be afraid to say what you really mean!

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There are better speakers at the price of the Credos , for instance , Dynaudio1.3 Mk2 (really, really better).

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Yeah, I think they're better at sounding bloated, fat, sluggish - although they do have a sweeter top end than ES11's. Boring! I guess that's better, if those are the things you're looking for. Oh that's right, it's all subjective, after all!

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The SBL are nice s/h speakers because there are not very easy to drive, and really cheap,

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Whether a speaker is new, used, or antique has no bearing on whether or not it's good. A speaker is good - or shite - depending on use, application, and then opinion (yes, it is subjective!) : period. SBL's ARE easy to drive. They are revealing - stick a 140 into them with a cheap CD player and they merely reveal a crappy CD player at the front. Cheap? Could it be that you really mean "good value for money"?

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but for the same price New BW 804 are better value than New SBL...

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As that is purely subjective, contentious,and absolute twaddle, the jury will disregard!
I suspect you are certainly looking for a more spherical version of the musical truth!

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Concerning, the DBL, I won't say anything:

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Yes - perhaps it's better that way.

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I just don't like them!!!
The NBL were magic, perhaps more than that (Someone is selling a pair on Naim Market £4000, I am so sad not to be rich enough..)

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Hmm, funny there are others who don't appreciate their magic, yet love the stuff that other Naim speakers do so well - Intros, Credo's, SBL's, Allaes, DBL's... IBL's, - the NBL is also a fab loudspeker. Like the DBL, there is a "price of admission" to make it perform...

** - just try that with B&W's.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

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Naim is not a great spakers'builder....

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Hey, I am sorry, but thats completely rubbish. If you don't like the DBL, you don't like them. But this is a declaration about yourself and not about the DBL! Yeahhh...

BTW, I have heard Credo, SBL, NBL and DBL and I was every time really impressed. They also look very nice, especially SBL-design is outstanding.

- Jun

Of course , Naim's speakers are not bad... (except DBL ... just , bass , bass and more bass) but you should compare with other speakers at the same price; You will be surprised!! There are some better (not only different) than Naims.
S/h SBL at 800£ are very , very good value. (I don't think it is possible to find better at this price)
But at 2500£, (new SBL) there are better speakers...
NBL are expensive, but IMO, the better at this price.
The DBL are perhaps the worst speakers at this price, (and at any price).
It is good to love Naim, and I do (I have a full-Naim system and intend to go to CDS2/XPS/Nac52/Nap135/NBL) but you should recognise that their speakers are good (of course) but not the best value. (so not the best...).


Charles

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(except DBL ... just , bass , bass and more bass)

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re DBL: If you listen carfully you will recognise that there is not only bass, bass and more bass!

re SBL: I like them because of their very natural voice performance, also strings and even piano sounds great! The "texture" of any sound is rendered authentically. I know, the bass sounds a little bit as if the contrabass was glued with silicone instead of bone-glue But you can follow the bass-melody easily without loosing other events!

re NBL: At it's price the NBL is maybe the best composite of both DBL and SBL... But I think I would need at least another pair of 135s to drive them properly - - if not 500s! That would be a litte bit expensive for me, since I have already an excellent system...

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but you should compare with other speakers at the same price

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OK, let us know some speakers at DBL-price which are "better" in your opinion!

- Jun

Did anyone get a chance to hear the new Dynaudios at the New York show? Their price points compare to SL2 and NBL. The report in Stereophile made them sound very round earth though - probably that's a good thing for people who don't like Naim speakers.

Anyway, there's no shortage of speakers to choose from, see below. Like Tom I'm sticking with the Allaes until SL2 arrives, since speaker demos are pretty futile, IMO and anyway speakers are ALWAYS a compromise. I think it is wonderful that so many people on this forum who actually live with a SBL, Allae, Credo or whatever are actually expressly happy with their speakers and not forever feeling compelled to hear demos of alternatives. Says it all really.

June 1, 2002 — Wandering around the show, we were struck by how good most of the speakers we were hearing were. Not just the cost-no-logic designs, but pretty much all of them. Are we audiophiles lucky or what?

The 7' Pipedreams with four (count 'em, four) subwoofers were sounding mighty impressive driven by an Audio Aero Capitole CD player ($8500) and a pair of $19,000 Tenor 75Wpc amps (a Plinius 250Wpc amp drove the woofers). The Pipedreams recreated the transient attack of a trumpet with such staggering realism that they could have probably blown out a candle with all that tightly focused air.

At the opposite extreme, the $1095/pair Triangle Xerius sounded natural and dynamic with Cairn's $1595 Fog 24-bit/192kHz upsampling CD player and identically priced 30Wpc 4808A integrated amp. The sound this Sam Tellig-approved $4300 system achieved in a small hotel room was nothing short of magical. Sometimes less is more. Cairn apparently hews closely to this philosophy or so their cute little 80Wpc Loco monoblock amps would have us believe. Priced at $495 each, they look as though two of them could fit in a shoebox.

Another surprise awaited in the North Acoustics room. The company displayed a pair of $8800 Tempest minitowers in drop-dead gorgeous figured sapele veneer—actually, in that veneer, they're probably $10,000. Driving them were brand new electronics from van den Hul: an elegant preamp (VDH A1 Array) and a 100Wpc stereo power amp (VDH Array S1). Also available is a VDH M1 mono 125W power amp. Prices? $3999 each. The sound was big and brawny, with an extremely laid-back top end.

The Tempest sports a 28mm Scan-Speak Revelator tweeter and a pair of Scan-Speak–sourced 7" woofers. The progressive third-order crossover was tuned by ear, designer George Short was quick to point out. The Tempest's transition from midrange to high frequencies was phenomenally seamless, and its 38Hz roll-off seemed much lower.

English manufacturer Wilson-Benesch was here in force, showing both its $8200 isobarically-loaded stand-mounted Discovery, which sounded big and dynamic, and its jewel-like stand-mounted $3200 two-way, the Arc, which sounded spacious and pure. The Arc was mesmerizing. Constructed from steel and carbon fiber, it sports proprietary Wilson-Benesch drivers (a 7" woven composite-cone mid/woofer and a 1" hand-doped silk-dome tweeter), twin ports, and a first-order crossover. When playing, the Arcs completely disappeared into the airy acoustic they rendered. With WB's bespoke stands, the Arcs retail for $3600/pair.

Naim, as always, came up with an unconventional solution to a common problem. The tweeter of the firm's new $7950/pair SL2 is mounted to an arm which extends from an aluminum pillar at the rear of the speaker, passing through the cabinet containing the woofer. Thus the tweeter is completely free from low-frequency interference. The SL2's bass driver fires into the lower cabinet of the speaker, which Naim calls its bass-loading cabinet—the two cabinets are separated by Naim's Precision Acoustic Resistance (PAR), which provides uniform resistance, while the lower cabinet precisely loads the mid/woofer driver, giving the speaker the driving ease of a small speaker, coupled with the power of a large one, or so Naim claims. Playing a CD of acoustic guitar, the SL2s sounded natural and extended—and staggeringly fast.

Hardly new, but sounding amazingly good, were the $1500/pair Epos M15s, which were driven by a pair of balanced Creek 5350 SEs, a Creek 53 CD player, and the Creek P53 Balanced preamplifier—which is new. The $2500 preamplifier is software-driven and sports an impressively designed 80-step resistor-ladder volume control. The P53's software allows the user to set his own "steps," based on what his needs are. The system was dynamic and exciting, and had bass control and response that were wall-shaking.

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Of course , Naim's speakers are not bad... (except DBL ... just , bass , bass and more bass) but you should compare with other speakers at the same price; You will be surprised!! There are some better (not only different) than Naims.

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you have clearly not heard DBL's working. Against B&W 802's, 801's - the B&W's are dead boring. But again you're talking subjective.

Come back when you've actually heard DBL's. This really deserves no further comment.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

PS - Jeremy - did you get a chance to talk to Roy Hall at the Creek/Epos stand? He's a great character.

Sure I did.
I compared DBL and NBL... and the NBL were fantastic, far away better. I was surprised to learn the DBL were so expensive...
I don't know BW802, 801 (but 803 are just killing SBL!!!) ;-)
The DBL were the most expensive I have listened to.What a disappointment...
Have you ever compared with Dunlavy Aletha, Eggleston Works Andra, Kef Maidstone,... ?



Charles

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Have you ever compared with Dunlavy Aletha, Eggleston Works Andra, Kef Maidstone,... ?

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What reference system are you comparing these speakers on?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

DBL

Charlezz,

Next time you're in Seattle come over to my place I will change your perception of DBLs.

Chris Bell

x+y+z>DBL. Do you have a reference system on which you are judging the differences between these speakers?

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Chris: I would be so happy... but Seattle is so far away from France...

Charles