experience with the qute
Posted by: Robbert on 04 September 2010
I hear that there are a view qute where available this weekend.
So some people must have the experience at there own house now.
Can somebody describe how the qute works? And maybe who has a NAP 250-2, how that works. Is it really running hot?? As power amp or also as pre amp?
Posted on: 21 October 2010 by Peter_RN
quote:
Originally posted by Tonkis nr2:
I have tried WLAN and Cable for my Qute, it seems to disapear from the network now and then, sometimes I have to shut off the Qute to get it back in the network again. I can't even get it into the network again via the system network menu, it just say "no network".
My n-stream app also have problems some times to find the Qute.
I can solve these hang up's via some trix but my family just see a machine that doesn't work and use the CD instead..
I hope naim solve this, it shouldn't be to complex issue to solve.
Tonkis nr 2
As you have connected both wireless and also wired with the same result, I would think it reasonable to stick the Qute under your arm and wander back to your dealer and ask him to check and see if there is a problem with the unit. The chances are it will be OK, but you will at least know where the problem lies.
The idea that your family are unable to use the unit is sad, it is far to good, and expensive, to allow that to continue for very long.
Peter
Posted on: 21 October 2010 by p3esr
Peter_RN, I would assume the Qute's wireless network portion would work just like any wireless network adapter on laptop or PC. If it's disconnected from the network due to congestion, it should reconnect automatically. It shouldn't require manual reset. I tried to fix my wireless AP channel and it's broadcasting constantly at channel 6, for my case now. I have not experienced any difficulty in connection. I suspect if your AP is using automatic channel selection, whenever the channel changes (due to signal fluctuation), the Qute will tend to lost its connection and disappear from the network permanently until the next power cycle or wifi reset on the box itself. So my conclusion would be: If the network is healthy, you'll never experience Qute disappearing from network; If your network is congested but not totally down, you might experience the above mentioned problem.
However, I will try to replicate the scenario at home and at dealer's shop. Will update if there's any new findings.
Posted on: 21 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by Peter_RN:
quote:
Originally posted by Tonkis nr2:
I have tried WLAN and Cable for my Qute, it seems to disapear from the network now and then, sometimes I have to shut off the Qute to get it back in the network again. I can't even get it into the network again via the system network menu, it just say "no network".
My n-stream app also have problems some times to find the Qute.
I can solve these hang up's via some trix but my family just see a machine that doesn't work and use the CD instead..
I hope naim solve this, it shouldn't be to complex issue to solve.
Tonkis nr 2
As you have connected both wireless and also wired with the same result, I would think it reasonable to stick the Qute under your arm and wander back to your dealer and ask him to check and see if there is a problem with the unit. The chances are it will be OK, but you will at least know where the problem lies.
The idea that your family are unable to use the unit is sad, it is far to good, and expensive, to allow that to continue for very long.
Peter
The fact that I tried cable is not 100% truth, even if I use cable to the Qute I have other WiFi components in my network that could interfere.. I don't want to install 10 m cables between my living room and my office. Anyhow I think the Qute should come back into the network without having to shut off the unit.
I had a SqueezeBox in my living room in the same network for 2 years whithout any problems.
Is PowerLan more stable than WiFi connection? (between living room and office)
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi all, just an update. I left my UnitiQute idle without streaming anything but I perform continuous ping from my laptop. As my wireless network goes busy with lots of users, suddenly I found out that the UnitiQute stops replying the ping request. This had made the UnitiQute to "as if" disappear from the network. One funny thing though, the iRadio still works!
To further investigate this matter, I logged into my wireless router, I take a look at the list of current wireless clients. Guess what? UnitiQute is still in the list! And when I check out the current Active Sessions, I do see UnitiQute (recognized via its IP address) has an active TCP session (used by the iRadio). This makes sense as iRadio is still working, so I believe UnitiQute is still connected to the internet, but it's isolated from the WLAN.
I then tried to use the ping tool on the wireless router, and it gives a positive ping response. So now the only device which can communicate with UnitiQute is the wireless router itself! No other devices can reach the UnitiQute, and this makes the UPnP does not work. All other devices on the WLAN can ping each other without any problem.
Now I wonder whether the wireless router or UnitiQute is causing such problem...Anyone from Naim?
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
Hi all, just an update. I left my UnitiQute idle without streaming anything but I perform continuous ping from my laptop. As my wireless network goes busy with lots of users, suddenly I found out that the UnitiQute stops replying the ping request. This had made the UnitiQute to "as if" disappear from the network. One funny thing though, the iRadio still works!
To further investigate this matter, I logged into my wireless router, I take a look at the list of current wireless clients. Guess what? UnitiQute is still in the list! And when I check out the current Active Sessions, I do see UnitiQute (recognized via its IP address) has an active TCP session (used by the iRadio). This makes sense as iRadio is still working, so I believe UnitiQute is still connected to the internet, but it's isolated from the WLAN.
I then tried to use the ping tool on the wireless router, and it gives a positive ping response. So now the only device which can communicate with UnitiQute is the wireless router itself! No other devices can reach the UnitiQute, and this makes the UPnP does not work. All other devices on the WLAN can ping each other without any problem.
Now I wonder whether the wireless router or UnitiQute is causing such problem...Anyone from Naim?
This explains some of the problems I had too. Some times when I tried to ping several times the Qute finaly responded. Could be nice to have some info from naim net experts.
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by p3esr
I just found out my wireless router's security mode was set to "WPA and WPA2", and the cipher type "AUTO (TKIP/AES)". I've changed the security mode to just "WPA" and cipher type "TKIP". I suspect it could be the AP became unstable when it kept negotiating between WPA/WPA2 and TKIP/AES. Just trying to isolate stuffs to narrow down the possible root cause. I'll try to continue to monitor and update.
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by p3esr
This is another update before I hit the bed. It was streaming UPnP flawlessly until I switched to iRadio's ClassicFM. After it plays for 5s, I switched it to Radio Paradise and from then, I get the "Please Wait Input Initialising" message. From then, UnitiQute does not reply to ping request...and I've waited for like 5 minutes still displaying the same message. Now I can't even get into the Network Setting page to disconnect and reconnect the WiFi (it stucks at "Please Wait Network Starting" message). Guess I have to reboot the box.
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
This is another update before I hit the bed. It was streaming UPnP flawlessly until I switched to iRadio's ClassicFM. After it plays for 5s, I switched it to Radio Paradise and from then, I get the "Please Wait Input Initialising" message. From then, UnitiQute does not reply to ping request...and I've waited for like 5 minutes still displaying the same message. Now I can't even get into the Network Setting page to disconnect and reconnect the WiFi (it stucks at "Please Wait Network Starting" message). Guess I have to reboot the box.
Yepp, that's one of my scenarios too. I think you have to reboot.
This never happens when I use Qutes WiFi, only for Qute via cable to my WiFi bridge,
I have WPA and WPA2.
Posted on: 22 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi Tonkis, that scenario of halting at "Please Wait Input Initialising" doesn't happen frequently.
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by Peter_RN
Hi p3esr
I must emphasise that I do not use wireless of any kind in my system, so fully wired only.Therefore, not the best person to advise on wireless issues.
My comment about the Qute maybe would not reconnect following dropping off the network was made because I have tried streamers that dropped off of my wired network and the only way to reconnect was to manually switch to another input (CD, radio etc) and then on switching back to UpnP they would then reconnect. At that point I would have to go through to whole process of reselecting music again. I didn't keep them for long!
So, what I am saying is that unlike a computer those streamers would not reconnect and resume playing if that is what you are expecting. I think that the Qute may work the same.
I don't know if you have downloaded the Qutes manual from the website, if not you may find it useful to take a look at that.
I can only say that since I connected the Qute to my network in the same place as the others that were a problem using the same cables etc., it has worked faultlessly.
Hope you find a solution soon.
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi Peter_RN, thanks for your input. I have one more setting to try which is to set my channel bandwidth from "Auto 20MHz/40MHz" to a fixed "20MHz". I've also telnetted to the Qute to monitor the command lines and found nothing abnormal but once the box goes into "Please Wait Input Initialise", I can no longer monitor as the network dropped out. Will try out everything again tonight on both live network and test network.
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by Peter_RN
P3esr – Good luck with your efforts tonight. If that does not work for you though, is it not possible to connect via cable (temporarily if necessary) to try and prove that the unit functions as expected?
Below are exerts from the manual is case you have not seen them; the second 'Note' may be helpful.
Note: UnitiQute is compatible with most commonly used Wi-Fi standards. Routers that support 802.11b and 802.11g will work, however those with 802.11g compatibility are recommended for best results.
Note: As with any wireless network hardware, UnitiQute connection reliability will be affected by both network router performance and Wi-Fi signal quality. To minimise the possibility of poor connection reliability, UnitiQute should be connected to network audio sources by no more than one wireless “leg”. Other “legs” necessary between UnitiQute and the network audio sources should be wired.
Note: UnitiQute cannot connect to a “hidden” wireless network.
Peter
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
Hi Tonkis, that scenario of halting at "Please Wait Input Initialising" doesn't happen frequently.
For me it has been a couple of times per week. Reboot has solved the issue. Once I waited for the Qute to resolve this during the night, still problems next morning.
Posted on: 23 October 2010 by p3esr
Peter_RN, it seems to be running fine for the past 3 hours. I've just purchased n-Stream app, and I've installed it on both iPhone and iPad, and I think that immediately adds the value of my UnitiQute by a few folds! Browsing has never been that easy before, and I can keep my remote control aside until I need it to do some settings. So far n-Stream is able to connect to the UnitiQute, which means the UnitiQute has stable connection. Perhaps the restriction of running just 20MHz on my WiFi network works? I can't conclude now.
Tonkis, I believe once it's in that state, no matter how long it will not reconnect by itself. We really need help from Naim to investigate in this issue.
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi guys, more updates from me after using for another few hours. I was streaming iRadio on the UnitiQute for more than an hour and when I tried to use n-Stream to control the UnitiQute, it just couldn't connect. So based on this scenario, UnitiQute still has reachability to the gateway (router), hence iRadio still works. To further prove that UnitiQute is still connected, I logged in to the wireless router and use the embedded ping tool to perform a ping test, and it returned a positive result.
Now, the tricky part is the connectivity with all other devices within the same WLAN. I can't ping the UnitiQute from my laptop (which was connected for the same period of time), not only that, my laptop can't ping all other laptops at home too. To make sure it's not the laptop's problem, I went to another laptop and same thing experienced.
I further disconnect and reconnect the WLAN on my laptop, I still can't ping the UnitiQute nor the iPhone and other laptops. Switching the WiFi off and on of the iPhone allows the ping to go through from my laptop. Doing so on other laptops further re-establish the network connectivity. Now the only device in the network which can't be ping-ed is the UnitiQute as I have not yet done anything to it. By simply reassociating the UnitiQute to the AP solves the network connectivity issue. Now the n-Stream and UPnP works as usual.
Conclusion? My AP hits the bug and prevents all wireless devices from connecting to each other. The UnitiQute will definitely work fine if your wireless router does not give any problems. I yet to try this out in wired environment. Rebooting the wireless router would be a better choice for me to solve the network connectivity as I don't have to goto every device to reset the wireless connectivity. If this sort of problem happens to you, please try to go through the steps I've mentioned above, and share with us. Thanks for reading.
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by Peter_RN
P3esr
My, you have more patience than I do.
Just try it wired and your problems should melt away (in an ideal world).
If you don’t have the cables could you beg, borrow or stea…. Well perhaps not the last one; but you see what I mean. Also, could you try PowerLine plugs I think they are called; they use the house wiring to transmit the signal.
WiFi seems OK if it works, but often it doesn’t work well enough.
Just my thoughts, as ever, good luck.
Peter
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi Peter_RN, haha, that's what I do to earn a living, I'm a CCIE specializing in service provider's network. I don't think I can lay a 30m cable all the way into my own room. So I guess I might just use the dedicated wireless AP (no other devices connect to it except the UPnP server and UnitiQute) for UPnP purpose, as for iRadio, no problem with the existing network as connectivity between UnitiQute and wireless router is always up and running. Sounds hassle isn't it? Wait till I get the firmware update for my customized wireless router (D-Link brand but customized for my SP).
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
Hi Peter_RN, haha, that's what I do to earn a living, I'm a CCIE specializing in service provider's network. I don't think I can lay a 30m cable all the way into my own room. So I guess I might just use the dedicated wireless AP (no other devices connect to it except the UPnP server and UnitiQute) for UPnP purpose, as for iRadio, no problem with the existing network as connectivity between UnitiQute and wireless router is always up and running. Sounds hassle isn't it? Wait till I get the firmware update for my customized wireless router (D-Link brand but customized for my SP).
I use a DLINK DAP 1522 in my living room, 10 m cable is no option.
Perhaps I should go for Power Lan instead.. that should be stable even if I heard about PowerLan perfomance not meeting the data sheet.
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by p3esr
My only concern with wired connection is lightning damage. Each time it rains, we'll get lightning here, unlike UK where I rarely experience it. 6 months ago my wireless router and a 3Com hub were fried by the lightning!
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by powerbench1
I love my Qute...
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by Plinko
Lol, I knew at some point a CCIE would buy a Qute.
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by Peter_RN
quote:
Perhaps I should go for Power Lan instead.. that should be stable even if I heard about PowerLan perfomance not meeting the data sheet.
Hi Tonkis nr2
I do know several people who are using these to stream Hi Def video successfully, so in theory at least the Qute should not be a problem. They do assume sound fixed wiring though. They are an option if other efforts fail.
Peter
Posted on: 24 October 2010 by Peter_RN
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
My only concern with wired connection is lightning damage. Each time it rains, we'll get lightning here, unlike UK where I rarely experience it. 6 months ago my wireless router and a 3Com hub were fried by the lightning!
Hi p3esr
Of course I could offer a solution for that but my bomb shelter is not quite finished.
Posted on: 26 October 2010 by p3esr
Hi all, I've found the real root cause of the issue which I've faced for the past one week. It seems that when a device (whether it's UnitiQute or a laptop) is left idle for some time, the wireless connection seems to be dropped. The actual fact is that the wireless AP failed to broadcast the ARP Request to all other wireless devices in the same network. ARP Request is needed to get the destination MAC address (when IP address is known) if the destination MAC address is flushed from the ARP table of a network device, this is a normal behavior used to conserve the ARP table cache.
To prove this, I used the command "arp -a" under MS-DOS prompt to display the ARP table to make sure that the destination MAC address of the other laptop I wish to ping is not listed. Then I try to perform a continuous ping, and I get a negative result (as expected). I then manually add the destination MAC address of the other laptop (for example: "arp -s 192.168.0.100 aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff"). This result will immediately get a positive ping reply. So if the wireless AP is working normally, the destination MAC address should be learnt dynamically.
Now I've laid a cross-cable from my (problematic) wireless broadband router all the way to my room and connect to another wireless router. Since I want to avoid connecting UTP cable to my UnitiQute, hence I used the wireless as medium. I get excellent strength as the wireless AP is just next to the UnitiQute. I setup another SSID using different channel (to avoid co-channel interference), and have my UnitiQute and UPnP server associated with this SSID. This way will ensure that UPnP traffic will only go through this wireless router, instead of all the way back to the (problematic) wireless router. As for iRadio traffic, it definitely has to reach the (problematic) wireless broadband router as it's the gateway to the internet.
I've run the above setup for a few hours, so far connectivity for UPnP, iRadio and n-Stream had been very consistent and excellent. When the UnitiQute gets instant connectivity, it'll not display the "Please Wait Input Initialising" message (on the n-Stream, it's actually displayed as "Connecting"). I really hope I won't face anymore issues and can concentrate on listening music. Sorry for the lengthy message...=) NDX should be the next best upgrade in future...Well done Naim!
Posted on: 26 October 2010 by Tonkis Q
quote:
Originally posted by p3esr:
Hi all, I've found the real root cause of the issue which I've faced for the past one week. It seems that when a device (whether it's UnitiQute or a laptop) is left idle for some time, the wireless connection seems to be dropped. The actual fact is that the wireless AP failed to broadcast the ARP Request to all other wireless devices in the same network. ARP Request is needed to get the destination MAC address (when IP address is known) if the destination MAC address is flushed from the ARP table of a network device, this is a normal behavior used to conserve the ARP table cache.
To prove this, I used the command "arp -a" under MS-DOS prompt to display the ARP table to make sure that the destination MAC address of the other laptop I wish to ping is not listed. Then I try to perform a continuous ping, and I get a negative result (as expected). I then manually add the destination MAC address of the other laptop (for example: "arp -s 192.168.0.100 aa-bb-cc-dd-ee-ff"). This result will immediately get a positive ping reply. So if the wireless AP is working normally, the destination MAC address should be learnt dynamically.
Now I've laid a cross-cable from my (problematic) wireless broadband router all the way to my room and connect to another wireless router. Since I want to avoid connecting UTP cable to my UnitiQute, hence I used the wireless as medium. I get excellent strength as the wireless AP is just next to the UnitiQute. I setup another SSID using different channel (to avoid co-channel interference), and have my UnitiQute and UPnP server associated with this SSID. This way will ensure that UPnP traffic will only go through this wireless router, instead of all the way back to the (problematic) wireless router. As for iRadio traffic, it definitely has to reach the (problematic) wireless broadband router as it's the gateway to the internet.
I've run the above setup for a few hours, so far connectivity for UPnP, iRadio and n-Stream had been very consistent and excellent. When the UnitiQute gets instant connectivity, it'll not display the "Please Wait Input Initialising" message (on the n-Stream, it's actually displayed as "Connecting"). I really hope I won't face anymore issues and can concentrate on listening music. Sorry for the lengthy message...=) NDX should be the next best upgrade in future...Well done Naim!
Very interesting and useful, waiting for further info during your test period
