why do classical musicians want to play j***?
Posted by: Thorsten on 05 August 2002
to whom it may concerns,
just received a copy of the 12 cellists of the berlin philharmonic playing classic broadway songs/film themes/spirituals/jazz called round midnight.
why? why do they do it? (apart from the fact that stuff like this sells good)
this record, although played on very high virtuosic level, is just another in a series of 10 cellists, five oboists, seventen flutists and other teams from renowned orchestras that give it a try at the so called "entertaining music".
it's another borer. articulation, phrasing. it's just not the real thing. they have till brönner with them (trp) and simon rattle doing a rap. brönner good, rattle... hmm. not sure yet. nice voice, though.
this seems to me to be music for the average doctor/lawyer with his subscription to the local opera who once in a while wants to go wild and thinks stuff like this is so 'jazzy'. i can imagine those guys sitting with their friends at dinner with a bottle of self-imported french red-chateaux, dipping their white bread in some extra vergine olive oil ("a friend of ours travels to a mill in the provence every januar and we get some bottles") and fleur de sel and telling their friends: "we do love jazz."
oh, i hate it.
btw. in the past i've found that hardly none of these concepts work. howard johnson playing jazz with ten other tubists, pooh. i do not even often listen to canadian brass, though they are fantastic. to me, that's an academic approach and after a while i get bored.
Posted on: 12 August 2002 by Former member
It was a second hand purchase and I guess that it has been in the collection for about 9 months.
When I say, I don't "get" jazz, I mean that a lot of jazz just does nothing for me.
What I don't like (remember that I only have about 10 jazz albums):
Billy Cobham
Miles Davis (I really tried to like this, but I don't)
Claire Martin
What I like:
Fred Simon
Antonio Forcione
Billy Holliday
Carol Kidd
Posted on: 12 August 2002 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
What I don't like (remember that I only have about 10 jazz albums):
... Miles Davis (I really tried to like this, but I don't) ...
What I like:
Fred Simon ...
Much thanks for the endorsement, although I do admit to very mixed feelings about superseding Miles Davis.
But I'll take it.
Posted on: 13 August 2002 by Pete
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
What I don't like (remember that I only have about 10 jazz albums):
Miles Davis (I really tried to like this, but I don't)
Tricky one, Miles has covered so much ground. Having read up on him, it looked like "Bitches Brew2 was the one for me, bought it, couldn't detect any music anywhere on it, gave it away, made mental note not to bother again. Cut forwards a couple of years, I'm in a record shop and the most fabulous music is playing, and I've got to get it. It turns out to be "Kind of Blue"... Subsequent experiments reveal that some of Miles' stuff I love, and some I don't get on with at all. I now love "Bitches Brew", but I still don't see why anyone would bother with "Sketches of Spain" over a decent rendition of the Concerto d'Aranjuez...
So, how much (and which) Miles have you listened to? Could well be the case that there's plenty of stuff he's done you'd love and you just haven't heard it yet.
Pete.
Posted on: 13 August 2002 by Former member
I've tried to analyse what it is about your disc that makes it different to most Jazz. (I missed off the Charlie Haden stuff that I also own. This fits somewhere between the "just don't get" of Miles Davis and the "really like" of Dreamhouse.)
I think that it is the drumming that sets Dreamhouse apart, there isn't anything wrong with the Piano or Bass playing, but it is the way in which the drums and cymbals are played that differentiates it from most Jazz albums.
Posted on: 13 August 2002 by Former member
"Kind of Blue" - the reissued correct speed CD.
"Amandla" - charity shop vinyl.
Neither of which does much for me.
Posted on: 15 August 2002 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
I've tried to analyse what it is about your disc that makes it different to most Jazz. (I missed off the Charlie Haden stuff that I also own. This fits somewhere between the "just don't get" of Miles Davis and the "really like" of Dreamhouse.)
I think that it is the drumming that sets Dreamhouse apart, there isn't anything wrong with the Piano or Bass playing, but it is the way in which the drums and cymbals are played that differentiates it from most Jazz albums.
I'm sure Sarah Allen will be delighted to know that her drumming is the crux for you. It is a different approach from that found on many jazz records (although similar to the more European/ECM manner) in that it is informed by classical music, more coloristic and less strictly pulse-oriented, incorporating commentary and the illumination of the musical story.
But I'd like to think that the melodies, harmonies, the narrative and emotional content of the compositions -- the overall particular sensibility that defines my musical voice -- has something to do with why you like it.
Posted on: 16 August 2002 by Former member
I bought the album because Dreamhouse was THE stand out track on the Naim sampler.
I DO like everything about Dreamhouse. When you take the ensemble as a whole the music works. You sum it up by saying "narrative and emotional". I don't get this from most Jazz music, I do get it from Dreamhouse. I think that is mainly the jazz drumming that puts me off, I need the "more coloristic and less strictly pulse-oriented, incorporating commentary and the illumination of the musical story", to make jazz work for me.
(I'm glad you put into words something my emotions tell me, but I lack the musical vocabulary to describe!)
Anyway, how about new album or a tour of the UK?
Posted on: 16 August 2002 by Pete
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
"Kind of Blue" - the reissued correct speed CD.
"Amandla" - charity shop vinyl.
Neither of which does much for me.
I'm hardly a Miles expert or completist, but you might see if you can dig up a copy of something like Porgy and Bess to try: nothing like the two mentioned above...
Pete.
Posted on: 16 August 2002 by Former member
Dreamhouse is one of those (few) albums that can impose it's own mood on one (rather than something that has to wait until you're in the rght mood).
I entirely endorse your enthusiasm for the drumming and especially the cymbal work - listen to the colours painted by them on "The Listening Well". Wonderful.
I never tire of it, and I'll bang on about how good it is until a new album is commissioned by Naim. I'm not sure what the issue here is, as Fred seems hot to trot...we seem to be the losers here.
Posted on: 16 August 2002 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by RichardN:
I bought the album because Dreamhouse was THE stand out track on the Naim sampler.
Anyway, how about new album or a tour of the UK?
Richard, thanks once again for your very kind words; I'm gratified the music speaks to you.
A new album ... anytime Naim wants one. A tour of the UK ... anytime the UK wants me.
Posted on: 16 August 2002 by fred simon
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Lees:
I never tire of [Dreamouse], and I'll bang on about how good it is until a new album is commissioned by Naim. I'm not sure what the issue here is, as Fred seems hot to trot...we seem to be the losers here.
Nick, much thanks also for your unflagging and spirited support, it means quite a lot to me.
I hope you've indicated your enthusiasm directly to Naim, apart from this forum, and assuming you have, I'm curious as to whether you've had any response from them. As I've said, the end-user's voice is much louder than mine in this matter, and it can never hurt to speak up again.
