The AV Corner?

Personally, I'm against the idea of having a separate forum since I'm a lazy so-and-so and will simply forget to go there!

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Hi Peter,

yes, I think that eventually we probably will have an AV room within the Forum but for now I think that it's fine within the Hifi Corner.

If you need any guidance from ourselves, just drop us a line by e-mail.

Richard

Good idea Peter. We're probably not there yet but it's defenitely one for the medium term.

Peter

As a committed AV user which means I am MAD!! I am quite willing to share experience on this topic.
If you want to converse send me a "private topic" with your e-mail address.

regards

GEOFFP

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yes, I think that eventually we probably will have an AV room within the Forum but for now I think that it's fine within the Hifi Corner.

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This is long over due. How much longer Richard?

Thanks Richard and Geoff

What I find most confusing is the apparent plethora of terminolgy and acronyms used in AV. I quite frankly do not understand much of it and so cannot easily determine what sort of system I need.
Clearly it would make sense, with an all Naim audio system, to continue with naim av stuff. (Although its expensive compared with some opposition notably arcam and cyrus!). However where I get most confused is with the video side. I have only just realise , for example, that an AV2 does not actually switch the video inputs, however a similar arcam one does(?). So while I can see how I fit the audio side together I cannot visualise how on earth I do the video switching. Does it mean having even more remotes etc.
Then there is anamorphic, progressive scan etc etc - some system have it others dont - I've no idea what I should be going for and I don't want to make expensive mistakes for lack of knowledge.
I know that dealers can be helpful - but at the end of the day they will sell what they stock not what they think is best for me. One dealer told me that a Yamaha processor was what i needed (they sold them) another dealer (who didnt sell yamaha) told me they were rubbish when compared to my naim system.
This is my dilemma. I do not know enough to be able make judgments on what I'm being told and the reason why I'm in very much on a hold. So any simple guide and help would be very welcome.

Cheers
Peter

Yes - lets go for it.

Peter

I don't claim to be an expert so what follows is open to further discussion but on the video side here are a few statements which might help

1) It's best to keep video switching and processing as well away as possible from the audio signal since the decoding fequencies don't match up at all and can interfere with each other. Hence NAIM's AV2 is purposely built
to be a audio only processor and Richard will confirm that a box is "on the way " which will add on as a seperate video switcher to work with the AV2.

2) As an alternative you can avoid video switching inside the A/V processor by plumbing up the video recorder, sattelite/digital box and DVD player through linked scart plug cables or through multiple scart inputs on the back of
the TV so you don't actually need to pass video signals through the A/V processor and benefit from the audio only approach offerred by the AV2.

3) That said there are a lot of A/V processors out there which do a pretty good job at a lower price point if you want to get your feet wet.

4) Anamorphic is a descriptive term applied to the way a film is encoded to playback from DVD. Effectively it allows the picture to automatically adapt to the best compromise size ratio for the TV. So on a widescreen TV you can
have a picture which completely fills the screen without small black areas at the top and bottom which would be there if you were watching a "cinemascope" film in its native film ratio. Secondly you get a so called "pan & scan" image which fills a standard format TV screen by showing the important part of a widescreen picture with the ends chopped of to fit the TV, rather than a very small "letterbox" widescreen picture.Basically for serious film viewing you should invest in at least a widescreen TV.

5) Progressive scan is the best way to get the full quality picture available from a DVD film. Until recently this output from DVD players, which is referred to as the "component" output (NOT composite,) was only available for american NTSC video but has recently become accepted for european PAL DVD's aswell so when buying a DVD player now unless funds are a problem make sure to buy one with PAL progressive scan component output.

6) Progressive scan works by painting every single line in the TV picture every time it scans a picture. Normal TV pictures and non-progressive scan DVD output is "interlaced" which means only every alternate line in the picture is painted in one scan and the lines in between are filled in in the next scan. You eye see's this as a continous picture because of the scan speed and the time it takes for the excited screen phosphors to darken. However whilst that's OK for a stationary scene as soon as motion occurs the time lapse between individual scans degrades the quality and jagged edges will occur which worsen with faster motion. Hence for fims and action in particular progreesive scan is a big benefit.

7) However having component progressive output on a DVD is no good without a TV display that can accept this input. This is NOT delivered by SCART which delivers the next best quality image as what is called RGB output. RGB is the best interlaced quality you can expect to get, followed by S Video and then worst of all composite which is pretty much like the R/F signal coming from an old fashioned TV aerial. To use the progressive DVD output you have to have at least a TV which can display a progressive scan picture through a set of component input sockets. There are some but they are usually quite expensive.

8) Where progressive scan really takes over is on Plasma and TFT displays and projectors which all operate in progressive scan mode. They have built in "progressive scan" convertors to deal with ordinary interlaced TV, though they cannot boost picture quality to the same level as available on DVD which can transmit more lines to build the picture.

9) The issue that is the cause of some debate is the occurrence of an unavoidable delay due to the video signal processing which ends up with the movement on the display being out of time sync with the audio coming from the DVD. Of course most noticeably when people are talking. This can be fixed by adding a programmable delay to the audio signal process so the video catches up but not many A/V processors have this built in at this time.

View this as part 1 on video. Audio is a whole different story

Hope this helps. Also any corrections to statements made here are welcome

regards GEOFFP

Geoff

Very many thanks for taking the time to spell all this out for me.
If I've got this correct then:-
No respectable AV processor should aim to switch both audio and video in the same unit. Also the processor should have some means of adjustable delay for lip synch. Does the AV2 have these facilities?
I should treat the video side of things separately. Even if it means cobbling the video via multiple scart connections.
A dvd player should have both anamorphic and progressive scan - although my sony widescreen is unlikely to be able to utilise the progressive scan mode. (I do see myself with a plasma or other flat widescreen in the future).

Do any other video inputs have the same charateristics? e.g will a film on the television or a vcr tape have all this information on board?

Thanks again Geoff much appreciated

Cheers
Peter

Peter
Respectable is relative. It all depends what you expect to get from DVD & surround sound formats. How serious are you?

If you intend to aim for HiFi quality sound and want to integrate it into a quality stereo system such as NAIM then yes you should seriously consider keeping the video and audio as seperate as possible.

However just to add confusion there are several high end A/V processors that do handle video and audio in one box but are built to high quality standards and come in at about the same price or hgher priced than the AV2. Tag McLaren is an example and also the Arcam AV8 which is more expensive. In priciple you CAN switch video through them but why do it if it is only being done to be remote control "lazy".

The key word is "processor" as opposed to "ämp or receiver" systems. Processors only handle low level signals and are really akin to a stereo pre-amp in that respect which means it is much easier to shield signal paths. Like the AV2 they leave the amplification to a seperate box (or boxes) so you can integrate your stereo amp into your surround sound setup by adding say a 3 channel amp to your main amp or you can go out and buy their matching amp boxes which can have as many as 7 seperate channels of amplification forthe more advanced sound decoding options.

Below that there are some very respectable 1 box A/V receivers with built in multichannel amps which give a lot of people all the quality they feel is necessary for cinema surrond sound. You get what you pay for but at the 800 to 1000 pound level and higher the likes of Pioneer and Denon are pretty good. They are also pretty good at decoding surround sound and the DSP task. Here you are looking for multichannel analog input sockets and a similar set of multichannel pre amp out sockets so you can take analog signals into and out of the a/v receiver as you choose. This is where the Yamaha recommendation surfaces because if you are just doing the DSP surround sound signal processing so you can drive amps of your own choice the Yamaha offers the DSP facilities at a really low value for money price. let me know if you want more info on this bit of the puzzle.

I believe the Tag and Arcam both have sync delay correction. I am not sure about the AV2 though I believe it will be offered as an upgrade, check with NAIM.

It maybe that the sync delay is not very noticeable,it depends how sensitive you are to the mismatch between lip movement and speech because if you can do without this facility Keeping the video seperate is still good. I have a plasma which I "switch" seperately from the audio since the DVD is plumbed into the component input and scart cable is used to connect video recorder and digi box to provide the "tuner" for TV reception on the plasma. I deliver TV audio output to the processor from a digital coax output on the digi box and similarly deliver the audio signal from the DVD via another coax digital connection, so I have no video signals passing into my A/V amp.There is a little bit of sync error but about 10 seconds into the "äction" I am not noticing it anymore so I view sync correction as desirable but not an absolute "must have".

Just to be correct "änamorphic" is not a function that comes from the way the DVD player works, it is built into the DVD disk as a part of the encoding process by the choice of the film company (Warner does it quite a lot). You have no need to do anything it is either on the disk or it is'nt and all DVD players can usually play anamorphic discs. Incidentally native cinema format dvd's are usually just as good to view because they represent the film exactly the way the director made it.

Yes to aiming for progressive scan. But be sure the player does it for both NTSC and PAL as opposed to a lot of players that only offer it for NTSC.

Also be sure to ask for a DVD player which is "multiregion" or if it is offered as a conversion get it done by the supplier before actually taking delivery of the player. Let me know if you don't know the crazy "region coding" story of DVD.

As to picture signals from TV and video at least in good old Europe the answer is no. The term digital when applied to TV means precious little in terms of picture quality over good old r/f and film on video is just like the video you record off your TV at home. In the US they have High defeniton TV underway and that is spectacularly good since it is even higher resolution than DVD. In fact if you do get into plasma or TFT you will find that some specify that they are HD TV capable for this reason. Whether it will ever get going over here is doubtfull.

Sound quality can be better on digital TV,in fact I believe Sky does transmit surround encoded audio on some films which can be decoded just like the audio off DVD if you take a digital feed to your processor.

The A/V processor is the DSP engine so look at what sound process options it has but expect at least Dolby 5.1, DTS and Dolby pro-logic II. The Prologic II is the best way to "tart up" the stereo signal coming from a stereo video or normal stereo TV to a reasonable facsimilie of true 5.1 surround.
Later decoding tricks include 5.1 EX, DTS ES, and DTS neo 6 which extend the number of channels but you may be familiar with this side of things so let me know if you need info on the sound side.

The other question is the obvious one. Are you planning to get into DVD-Audio and SACD. If you are that adds a whole new set of decisions to the pot. Again let me know if you want some basic info on that.

Other advice go out and buy "What video & HiFi". It has a glossary of common terms and a section with opinions of so called "best buys". I am not saying they are good reviewers it is just a way of picking up some of the jargon.

regards

GEOFFP

And yet no one talks about scaling the image using a PCHT (What about the sound quality ?) or a dedicated de-interlacing/scaling box or PC+Dscaler software.
On a Plasma or a videoprojector it can be great scaling the image up to 720 horizontal lines : http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/index.php

Geoff

Once again many thanks for your time and considered thoughts on what is clearly a tricky topic (certainly for me anyway!).
Just to give my background - I have a good naim audio system (cds2/52/01/250/sbl's) plus a widescreen telly, vcr and dvd player. Having recently got into widescreen tele and dvd's (which I play through the vcr input on the 52 i.e stereo) it seemed logical to go for 'cinema' sound and I did audition the av2 with a naim sound system and I beleive a denon dvd player. I was bowled over! The problem was that although I was prepared to pay the £7-8k or so - to include speakers, sub, stands etc I was seduced by the fact that it appeared as though it could be done far cheaper via Yamaha etc. I've been sort of stuck since waiting to sort information out!
What do I want?
I want to be able to see television and dvd's and possible some VCR (a recordable DVD player to replace the vcr would be nice!). I would like things to switch automatically e.g. if I select vcr or dvd or tele then I do it with one button push and both audio and video are selected with appropriate visual/sound formats etc. I would like the the same sound quality. I do want it linked to my existing audio system (I don't have the luxury of separate rooms for audio and video). I'm happy to go the 5.1 route and eventually replace the tele with a plasma or similar.
So there you are Geoff easy really - although I suspect I'm asking for too much!! It would be good to know if others have gone (are going) down a similar path and what system was chosen and why.

Cheers
Peter

To "the Kid"
Plasma screens.
There is a lot said about two things.

1) Because plasma "glows" when switched on it is a challenge to get really deep black which is surprisingly important when viewing because shadow gives a picture clarity and depth. This is cured in most plasmas and it is getting better all the time as the contrast ratios obtained by the electronics get larger. I have a Panasonic 42" (TH-42PWD4) which is about 1 year old. This quotes a contrast ratio of 3000:1 and was`considered the one to beat in this repect when I bought it.
2) Good brightness is also going to allow viewing without needing to resort to a darkened room so this also should be considered. Mine is quoted at 400 to 700 cd/m2 (whatever that means) and works fine in daylight.

Put those things together and you have the potential to get photographic quality imaging from prog.scan DVD, especially with a good quality player like the SONY. It really should be a perfect sharp and beautifull color image with subtle details such as skin textures and flesh tones showing,coupled with deep and solid blacks and When motion happens fast the sharpness should remain with no blurring. Basically just like film in a cinema.

I agree with your other comments about Plasma. I reckon the only things with the same potential or better are LCD displays when their price comes down and their size goes up and professional grade DLP projectors which don't suffer from the "rainbow" effect because they use 3 seperate DLP's for the primary colors and are therfore often more expensive than plasmas and need a lot more money spent on the screen to go with them.

I don't really know back projection TV too well but was always struck by how low brightness the picture seemed and they never impressed me.

"Other tweaks"
What to say. If you are sticking with stereo - not a lot.
If you do get tempted to go "surround" then the following may be of interest.
I have a CDX2/112/HiCap/150 for CD stereo driving a pair of Totem Mani 2 speakers. I use the 112's A/V input set for "unity gain" to take the DSP decoded front channel pre-out signals from my A/V receiver which means I am still using my Naim kit for some of the DVD sound. The rest of the channels are amplified by the A/V reciever to give the full surround experience.
I also am into DVD-Audio and SACD so again I use the Naim kit to get the highest quality out of the main front channels and in fact I often lsiten to the stereo output from these disc formats which sounds spectacular sometimes (disc/recording dependent).
In this way my stereo HiFi does dual duty.

To ""Karyboue"
Interesting idea. Software scaling and de-interlacing , but requires you to put a PC in the chain and have a video capture card.
Check out a low cost hardware box at:
http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/product/technical.asp?dept_id=32&sku=590&Hash=590
I hear that Tag McLaren is introducing a professional quality video scaler but it will be expensive.
I have never seen a "scaled" DVD picture but I have heard it is equivalent to HDTV so if you can afford a quality scaler it could be worth doing.
Any comments?

To "Peter"
What I was saying above about how I use my Naim stereo kit is a possibility. As you suggest the low cost ÿamaha processor is one way to do it. You of course need to buy 3 channels of extra amplification if you do that but you can consider the NAPV175 and then you have consistent naim sound throughout.

This is not a complete ärmchair solution but you can get quite close if you consider a programmable remote like the Philips Pronto which can replace all your exiting remotes and can run programmed "macros" to switch multiple pieces of kit in an automatic sequence.

I have no idea how the Yamaha sounds as a substitute for the AV2 but it has recieved multiple recommendations as a low cost way into surround with a naim based system, on this forum. Do a search on "yamaha" to see earlier e-mails
Maybe it is worth a demo for you.

I also have'nt worked out how you manage the volume of the front channels vs the other 3 since I don't believe the 52 has a "unity gain" option. That's where the AV2 wins BUT even then you have to accept the difference in quality between the AV2 as a stereo pre-amp and the 52 which I assume is in a different class for stereo.


Regards

GEOFFP

Correction:
Runco doesn't use the Faroudja processor/processing. The Runco scalers (ViVix processors) use Runco propietary software.

If you plan to use such processor, be sure your DVD player can output an interlaced picture. If it is progressive scan, it must have a switch/menu option to disable the de-interlacing. Those processors do the task much better than any DVD player i have seen (except the Faroudja and may be the Camelot and very few others).
The Runco is maybe 14k$, but this price includes a separate box scaler. If you have a chance, compare a Fujitsu and a Runco...It's like Arcam and Naim.
Runco is a kind of integrator, they take the best components they find and improve them. Fujitsu makes the best plasma sceens (reliability, vision angle, luminosity...the screen itself, not the set), so Runco uses them and makes the best electronics and software to drive them.

The analogy with audio is considered to be:
DVD player: source (CD)
Set-top box: source (Tuner)
Video processor/scaler/switcher: preamp
Projector: amp
Screen: speakers

The real Home Cinema experience can only be attained with a front projector. No other means, today, can give you a 100" display. No other means do not accoustically intefere with the sound system (try to place a 50" plasma screen between your beloved speakers...). And, ...WAF is 200%.
New DLP projectors are about the same price as good plasma. The new Runco 710 (720*1280, high contrast) is 9995 Us$ and doesn't suffer rainbow effects, add 2-3K$ for a good screen.
Plasma screens are to replace big telys in the living room, not as a main movie system.

PS: i'm a Runco dealer.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

[This message was edited by Manu on FRIDAY 29 August 2003 at 05:15.]

Peter,
Your 52 can be moded to have a unity gain input.
You can switch and automate all you want with a Pronto remote control (i'm a Pronto dealer) but be prepare to spend days to program it. It's not difficult, but long, very long.
If you want seriously to go in Home Theater, ask a professional. The problem is to find a guy with strong video knowledge who can understand your "flat earth" taste for music. Most of the video guys don't care about sound, same for audio guys for the picture and integration.
This point is essential: you must pay for a professional calibration of your display, not only ask your dealer to install the set. Display calibration is a science, there is one way to adjust 90% of a picture (the remaining 10% is a mater of taste). All displays are wrongly set at the manufacturing stage and your environment will affect the picture (sources, ambient light, wall color, screen material...).

Geoff,
Analog RF is much worst than composite.
Progressive scan DVD player outputs are high bandwidth Component (Y,Pb,Pr), the green is derived from the Y signal, and is not perfectly accurate. The ultimate analog video signal is RGBHV (like the VGA 15 pin connector of your computer) and is available only on very few high end DVD players, good plasma and projectors have these inputs (15 pins or 5*RCA or 5*BNC).
I don't know much about this SCART, this is a European only standard.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

[This message was edited by Manu on FRIDAY 29 August 2003 at 06:21.]

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Geoff,
Analog RF is much worst than composite.
Progressive scan DVD player outputs are high bandwidth Component (Y,Pb,Pr), the green is derived from the Y signal, and is not perfectly accurate. The ultimate analog video signal is RGBHV (like the VGA 15 pin connector of your computer) and is available only on very few high end DVD players, good plasma and projectors have these inputs (15 pins or 5*RCA or 5*BNC).
I don't know much about this SCART, this is a European only standard.

Emmanuel

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Thanks for the input Manu.

I must be honest and admit my comments here to date have pretty much sucked me dry of all that I know about the terrifying choices out there if you want to build quality A/V and what you as a proffessional have highlighted is the key I am sure.

Anybody getting into this SHOULD find somebody like yourself to lay out the choices for the individual based on their desires and the depth of their pocket.

I admit to a perhaps relatively lucky if "stumbling" journey along the path to where I am since I could never find anybody along the way to give me full information and advice.

Somewhere else recently on this forum I picked up the following link to the internet
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-part-1-video-9-2000.html
I have just started looking at it and have only "scratched" the surface. Maybe you could comment Manu on whether it is usefull information to understand before I really sit down and read thru'it.

Thanks for putting me straight on the signal quality grading. I have a Plasma which allows the RGBHV input either thru' 5 BNC's or a 15 pin d-sub computer plug. I use the 15 pin with my computer to run slide shows of digital photographs so I can appreciate how good this input is.

Question:
In the absence of RGBHV output from the DVD player, what quality of Scaler running off of non-progressive scan output from a DVD (probably via an S-video out would bring a valuable boost over using progressive scan component out. My current take on it is that the low cost solutions out there don't have it in them to do a proper job and as always you have to pay for quality.

The dreaded SCART socket used over here in europe is a horrendous thing. It has 21 pins and if fully wired acts like a "two way" interface cable between TV's, Video recorders, DVD players and sat/digi boxes. It is used to carry sound and video in both directions and also carries "start me up" signals so that you can have automated channel setup on TV's and Video's and one can auto switch the other when activated.

Quite a lot of these pieces of equipment have multiple SCART sockets which allow you to "daisy chain" them together with the TV at the end, and often there is a "pass through" capability supposedly to reduce signal contamination by internal circuits along the chain.Even so as you can imagine it is a horrible environment in which to carry all those delicate signals.

It is a "consumer" design with no attention given to ultimate quality.
Interestingly on better quality gear the SCART is used to carry what is referred to as an RGB color signal which is potentially quite a good video output but should not be confused with RGBHV. Typically SCART RGB is rated below component and on a par with S-Video,if you can get past the concern over having lots of signal wires packed into a cable about the same thickness as a good single 75ohm RCA cable.

Your comment to Peter about setting up a display for the room it is in and that the manufacturers ship them setup incorrectly makes me a little nervous that I am not seeing the best from my Plasma. However as I mentioned earlier in the absence of local professional help I guess I have to be accept it as is.

To be honest I am quite happy with the images I get from prog.scan DVD. they seem virtually cinematic in terms of clarity and color depth. The only token setup that I have been able to do is to use the THX tests that are bolted onto some DVD's to optimize color balance and density and tweak sharpness and geometry.

Does that consitute at least a step in the right direction?

Anyway this is an interesting and educative thread. I hope we are not
frightening everyone to death. I am sure there is a lot of pleasure to be had from A/V at many price levels. It is just as with HiFi, for serious performance you need to pay serious money and when you are planning to do that you need serious advice especially since it is pretty difficult to organize a home demo for a large screen video
output device (TV or Plasma). You can't exactly pick them up and put them on the back seat of the car.

regards GEOFFP

Scaling boxes with s-video only inputs really don't work.
For deinterlacing and upscaling a computer is the best in terme quality, possibilities and flexibility (try to find a deinterlacing/upscaling box with 800*600@75hz output with a pal input) but unfortunatly it's not plug and play.
For the use of Dscaler the aquisition is made from svideo output but if you use a good cable (for instance a chord silver svideo) with the appropriate filters (a powerfull chip is necessary) the quality is almost as good as a PCHT. By the way, the ultimate solution for a PCscaling only is an HOLO3D (Faroudja chip) aquisition card using it's own fully plug and play software ( http://www.immersiveinc.com/holo3d/ ) with YUV inputs but the price is around 900$ compared to a 50$ standard card
If you don't need any strange frequencies (as I do) a good box with YUV inputs to VGA or even DVI which is the really the best on projectors should do it : Cinematrix box ( http://www.cinemateq.de/index.php?content=d210 German only).
A good alternative to a PCscaler is the Focus Quadscan.
This means finally that there's no need to buy a deinterlacing DVD player as a computer or a very good box should do a much better work on video.

Here's the best page I know about progressive scan infos : http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

To start from the beginning and simply.
An NTSC TV set accepts 480 horizontal lines but in fact only 240 at the same time each time alternatively (time depends on frequency and induces flickering). It's called 480 interlaced.
A progressive image or deinterlaced is 480 at the same time, also called line-doubled.
A progressive scan DVD is a line-doubler.

What will do a computer or a box such as the centerstage is triple, quadruple, etc from the original 240 lines (...well almost...) and multplicate it to 720(x3), 960(x4), 1200(x5), etc (or from 640*480/2 (NTSC res) upscale to SVGA:800*600 (x2.5), XGA, etc...). The higher the rate the better the resolution.
If the maximum resolution of your plasma is 720 horizontal lines, go for a "line-tripler". Check the doc.. The centerstage (or an other box) will provide that upscaled signal to the plasma.

If the res max of your plasma is 720 "only", the other point is that may be the Denon or/and the Sony can be tweaked to give 720p. The Philips 963 is able to do it (after software tweaking) and has a Faroudja DCDi (really the best chip) ... but an absolutely awful sound. Have a look there and search or ask : http://www.avforums.com/

I also know that 3Dlab has launched a DVD player with a Progressive scan Faroudja chip card upgrade with several resolution possibilities : http://www.3d-lab-av.com/ps1000.html (Sorry, I couldn't find it in english).

After settings, a centerstage will be plug and play. Try it before

The de-interlacing process is not a line doubling.
De-interlacing: it takes 1 frame with the odd line numbers memorize it, takes 1 frame with the even lines, add both and send them together 2 times.
Frame 1: Line 1 + line 2; frame 2: line 1 +line 2.

Line doubling: it takes 1 frame with odd lines, copy the lines with a shift of one line (filling the even lines with a copy of odd lines). Then it takes 1 frame with even lines, copy the lines with a shift of one line (filling the odd lines with a copy of even lines).
Frame 1: line 1 + line 1; frame 2: line 2 + line 2.
The result is not the same, the first is better, you always see a full picture but with a 1 frame delay.

The difference with a Runco processor is whatever the source resolution, it upconverts it to the display native resolution.
The DVD player you pointed just have an internal scaler. Just be sure it can output the native resolution of your display, they are not all 720*1280.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Guys

I am lost in a sea of web sites and options which apparently de-interlace and line double and some really expensive ones that appear to scale to various standard line counts and pixel counts.

Over here in europe we don't have HDTV (yet but hopefully not never) and my Plasma is only VGA capable so it down samples (if that's the right phrase) SVGA,XGA, UXGA etc so that leads to a selfish question or two.

Given my limited plsma resolution, how much genuinely good hardware scalers cost and the fact that component progressive scan ain't half bad, is it really woth spending on such a scaler in my case?
ALSO
What is the honest minimum processor, video driver board and video capture board speed needed to run DScaler. I read that I might aswell forget about it on PCI bus?

I am not sure I am ready to park a desktop PC in my living room just to drive my plasma anyway.

regards

GEOFFP

quote:

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Originally posted by Manu:
The de-interlacing process is not a line doubling.

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Yes Manu you're right.
I used that way to simply explain the line-multiplication factors of upscalers.

For a 720 lines "only" matrix I am no sure that a processor is worth the price.
For upper resolutions I believe it is and Fujistu made plasmas with UXGA matrix (1600*1200 lines) ...

quote:

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What is the honest minimum processor, video driver board and video capture board speed needed to run DScaler. I read that I might aswell forget about it on PCI bus?

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Usually an AGP bus is necessary for the video card but with a VGA only res it's possible that a PCI bus is ok.
An aquisition card said to be "good" is the Xcapture (about 40£).
For the processor, it depends on what you want to do, due to possible extra filters like noise reduction.
There's a discussion forum on Dscaler's site : http://deinterlace.sourceforge.net/phpBB/

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The real Home Cinema experience can only be attained with a front projector. No other means, today, can give you a 100" display. No other means do not accoustically intefere with the sound system (try to place a 50" plasma screen between your beloved speakers...). And, ...WAF is 200%.

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Thanks for your interesting contribution to this thread Emanuel. One question - what is WAF? I expect that when you reply I will feel a fool but at this point I cannot think what WAF stands for.
Terry

WAF means all or nothing, depending on your situation: Wife Approval Factor.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.