Final report on Abbado/Berlin Brahms Symphonies

Dear Mike,

I entirely agree, especially with respect to our comments about the way Abbado manages the balance between of pathos and inevitability.

Of course this is a long way from saying the music making is predictable, but certainly it feels right [IMHO] during and after listening.

I think the performances follow on from the tradition of Bruno Walter, and Felix von Weingartner. Of course Boult and Klemperer are also in this tradition, and all manage the tension without excessively fast tempi or eccentric dynamics. Each is individual, and each has something unique to offer. The recordings serve very nicely, even if I don't think they offer a more lucid balance than any I mentioned here, even if they certainly offer a commendably accurate reflection of the timbres of the BPO on great form.

I know that some have found Abbado is not the most exciting conductor in the music, but there is much more to the music than unralenting raw excitement. - again IMO.

ATB from George

PS: [In the first paragraph, where I wrote our, I meant your. Sorry}.

And this does not alter the fact that there is more than one current Brahms tradition in the concert hall or on records. The move towards smaller ensembles is commendable as a valid alternative. I suspect that the old HMV [and even earlier English Columbia] recordings by Weingartner in Brahms point to the use of smaller orchestras than Klemperer, Walter, Boult or Abbado employ, and the gain is certainly in lucidity to some extent, but each of these old masters, and Abbado - a current master - certainly understand how to balance a modern symphony orhestra which is probably larger than Brahms might have entirely anticipated.

MacKerras springs to mind among the modern master conductors who are returning to the use of a slighter Brahms sound, produced by an orchestra of the kind of numbers of string players that Brahms probably was thinking of.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
PS: [In the first paragraph, where I wrote our, I meant your. Sorry}.

And this does not alter the fact that there is more than one current Brahms tradition in the concert hall or on records. The move towards smaller ensembles is commendable as a valid alternative. I suspect that the old HMV [and even earlier English Columbia] recordings by Weingartner in Brahms point to the use of smaller orchestras than Klemperer, Walter, Boult or Abbado employ, and the gain is certainly in lucidity to some extent, but each of these old masters, and Abbado - a current master - certainly understand how to balance a modern symphony orhestra which is probably larger than Brahms might have entirely anticipated.

MacKerras springs to mind among the modern master conductors who are returning to the use of a slighter Brahms sound, produced by an orchestra of the kind of numbers of string players that Brahms probably was thinking of.

ATB from George

our is fine :-)

MacKarres is next up - expect to get the recordings between the 15th and the 20th.

i also have jochum/berlin which i love.

Never heard these famous Jochum Brahms performances, but he is also in that great Germanic line. I bet he has somewhat more animation to it than Abbado, as does Boult [who learned his Brahms from Steinbach, Weingartner, and particularly from Nickisch], and whose 1954 set done for Pye with the LPO is priceless - sadly deleted after the first issue on CDs in the late eighties, and oddly iisued originally on LPs with another orchestra credited! The LPO were contracted exclusively to Decca at the time and appear on the labels as the London Promenade Orchestra, which was a euphemism for an ad hoc pick-up orchestra in many cases in those days. Like in the 1920s the LSO often went on the label as the Royal Albert Hall Orchestra till their exclusive contract with English Columbia ended in 1928.

I shall go to Tam's again before long, and must remember to ask him to put some of Jochum's Brahms on! I am especially fond of the Third!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Never heard these famous Jochum Brahms performances ... I bet he has somewhat more animation to it than Abbado
ATB from George

exactly so.

after mackerras, i plan to turn my attention to mozart. you thoughts on that (in a new thread) would be quite welcome.

It is a long time since we had a good Mozart thread.

Mouth watering prospect! I have two favourite Mozart conductors: Klemperer and MacKarras! And several others who shine in individual works works, but that is for another time!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
It is a long time since we had a good Mozart thread.

Mouth watering prospect! I have two favourite Mozart conductors: Klemperer and MacKarras! And several others who shine in individual works works, but that is for another time!

ATB from George

maybe we could hunt down a notable young mozart conductor?

That will come out I am sure. Often a nice long thread throws up some lovely ideas to share and enjoy! I also like some of Hogwood's performances, but he is hardly young anymore!

ATB

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
That will come out I am sure. Often a nice long thread throws up some lovely ideas to share and enjoy! I also like some of Hogwood's performances, but he is hardly young anymore!

ATB

young is a relative term.

He is older than me and I am no longer quite able to call myself young! Except in heart!!

quote:

maybe we could hunt down a notable young mozart conductor?

When I hear the recent Mackerras/Scottish Chamber Orchestra version of the late Mozart symphonies, I feel that I am listening to a young conductor (though he's even older than me).

Otherwise, try Jane Glover with the London Mozart Players. I was taught never to ask a lady her age! The performances, IMHO are delightful.

Regards,
Ken