Tour de Lance?

He tested "positive" on his B sample only (assuming it was his was not in anyway tampered with by the French Lab or other "interested parties") and his A sample had been destroyed some years before so could not be tested.

So, we have one sample, stored frozen for many years, tested by a new test in a French Lab using a developmental test that was not approved...

I have no clue whether he did or didn't use performance enhancing drugs but he has never been tested positive and is probably the most tested man on the planet.

Cheers

Jim

Jim,
Like you I want to believe he is clean, unfortunately all cyclists are tarred with the same brush and when all around him are falling foul of drug use(Landis, Pantani, Abdoujaperov et al.) it is perhaps understandable that the man who since his return from illness has been unbeatable would not be suspect.
I find it difficult to believe that after almost dying he has became physiologically better than he was before. I understand Armstrongs argument that his body changed dramatically after the chemo but I would have thought it unlikely to make him a better athlete

quote:

Originally posted by Howlinhounddog:

I find it difficult to believe that after almost dying he has became physiologically better than he was before.

Good grief man , do you not remember Steve Austin ?

Howlinhounddog

I'm actually ambivalent on the matter but until he is proven guilty he is innocent and I think that is enshrined in the US constitution and UK law...despite "positive tests" that were so out of process they were dismissed.

Anyway, I hope he wins this year - it will be a great story, despite the fact that LA does not seem the most likable individual - but he does seem to get his fair share of tail! :-)

Cheers

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Howlinhounddog:
I understand Armstrongs argument that his body changed dramatically after the chemo but I would have thought it unlikely to make him a better athlete

I think it would though when you look how it changed. He went from a very powerful one day rider to a very skinny rider with the same unheard of VO2 figures. It does stack up I think. He had some of the best figures seen in the lab before Chemo, but had seen the way to success was to power/bulk up and use this engine. The engine post-chemo was driving a leaner machine far better atuned to grand tours.

I'm no fan of Armstrong, I think he's a bully, but I do believe he's clean.

Mat

You might want to take a look at this I'm not sure how accurate it is but it's interesting reading on the background physiology and breaks some urban myths.

Cheers

Jim

Thanks for that Jim...interesting.

The key thing from that is the watts per kilogram that Lance can churn out. My understanding is that post chemo, his power output dropped slightly, but his weight dropped massively - so his watts per kilo figure rocketed. This would explain why he struggled to win (although he didn't target them) the spring classics post chemo (he did win Amstel Gold)...but he became a real force in the big hills.

My missus competes for the GB triathlon team (I can boast about her, it's not me ) When she pulls he weight down her running and swimming change a bit, but her cycling becomes miles better...same engine, less weight.

Cracking stage again today, Contador looked awesome...if he carry's on like that, the next few days could all but decide it...just when we thought it was going to go all the way to Ventoux!

I remember getting a bike in Colorado in college, in summer I rode out in the "flat farm country". One long slow upgrade I was working those gears down. Then coming up to a farmhouse I saw 2 dogs running out from the porch. I started pumping harder and harder, shifting up gears. They were nearing the drive entry, I was really into it by then.... They were barking and nipping at my heels, I was scared as ....
I ended up flying over the top of the hill at incredible speed. Amazing what adrenaline can do. Getting home after dark, I almost couldn't get out of bed the next morning.

Never did that again.

"Pain is temporary, giving up lasts forever."

This is a quotation from Lance Armstrong and perhaps is more of a mark of what drives him to win more than the other 10 or so elite riders who could challenge him in a 3 week tour.
Mat said

quote:

I'm no fan of Armstrong, I think he's a bully, but I do believe he's clean.

Mat I am a fan and don't care he's a bully, the best cyclists usually are, but clean? Cycling as a sport over the years leads me to always doubt this.
As once a competative rider myself, I would constantly wonder if I was the only non asthmatic at the start of a race/TT by the amount of inhalers being used around me!

Maybe all the asthmatics took up cycling to improve their asthma?

No??

Jim

I know what you mean. I've followed cycling since I was a kid, I've come to terms with the fact that most of my hero's (Coppi, Merckx etc) weren't clean. I don't have a problem with this, but I do think cycling has moved into a new era where the majority are clean.

The cheats now are an elite few who can pay for expensive treatment.

When it comes to Lance, I just base it on the observation that he has been tested so many times and it's always a negative (The LA Confidential claims see very suss to me).

Inhalers though...its what rear pockets in cycling jerseys were made for it seems

quote:

Originally posted by Reginald Halliday:

quote:

Originally posted by Howlinhounddog:

quote:

They already did. 6 x +tive for EPO in 1999. Inadmissible, but that doesn't make him innocent, just 'not proven'.

Really... I believed that he had somehow managed to tie up the testers in legalities and avoided retests ?

Correct, he will face no sanction. That doesn't stop the samples being a) his and b) positive. One feels that had he been L Armstrong, domestique on a French 2nd string team rather than L Armstrong multi-millionaire things may have turned out rather differently.

First of all, Lance was not a multi-millionaire in '99.

Secondly, are you saying that the following recently banned riders were "domestiques on a 2nd rate team"?

(Sorry if incorrect spelling on some of these)

Ivan Basso
Jan Ulrich
Tyler Hamilton
Floyd Landis
Thomas Dekker
Alexander Vinokourov
Iban Mayo
Tom Boonen (Cocaine???? what??)

these are just off the top of my head. All were GC contenders and/or team leaders.

If Lance was caught as "dirty" they would crucify him.

Just as an aside on this...the suggestion that Armstrong tested positive for EPO in 99, is not in any way a proven fact. It's based on some leaked information, where the coded numbers of the sample are claimed to be Armstrongs...but the provision of such 'information' made somebody an awful lot of money.

I remember reading a while ago, that Armstrong is almost unusual (amongst) top riders in having a fairly steady hematocrit level, which is suggestive of him not having used EPO.

For me, there are also a few other key bits of information. None of his team mates have ever suggested he's a user - even though this would pull in millions (ok, with a lawsuit to boot)...Frankie Andre suggested that he'd seen US Postal members using, but not Armstrong. Secondly, nobody has ever come forward claiming to have supplied Armstrong (this info would be worth millions - ok, with a lawsuit to boot).

I'm not sure he was clean, I think he was. I also think Contador is, Andy Schleck is, Cadel Evans is (or whatever he's on, it's never worked) etc. But I would expect some of that small list are not.

Cycling is riddled with cheating and skullduggery...I want a clean sport, but I do love the 'Wacky Races' element of it's history.

How many cricketers never pick the seam? How many footballers engage in off the ball stuff? How many Olympic athletes are clean? Etc.

Congrats to Cavendish on another stage win, but what is this 'horse with a huff' attitude of the teams to going out without radio backup?
Honestly, pampered prima donna's, blahblahblah...

Did antone else hear Thor H admit that he cannot beat Cav in a straight fight for the line?

How long can he keep Cav out of green?

Jono

Not long it would seem. Cav won stage 11 and the green back.

He's starting to make Cipo look a bit average!

Boonen is having a storming tour so far

Thats true Mat, I've been really impressed by Tom Boonen yet again. His work rate for the team is phenominal and for such a large man he still manages to go up hills with the best of them.
So does Cav now sit in the bunch and pick off any intermediate sprints (before the road goes skyward)to maintain the green jersey into Paris. Cap it all off by taking the stage on the
Champs Elysees and become the UK's most successful tour rider? He said he has is eyes set on another couple of stages but why bother. It is probably more important for his sponsors to see him on the podium in Paris in green.

I think there are something like 4 more stages Cav *should* win, so there is quite a possibility he will enter Paris in Green. Will be interesting to see how he plays it.

I've got a sneaky suspicion Armstrong is going to make more of a push towards the end. Sitting in second now, he seems to be very comfortable and not pushing himself to the limit just yet. I don't like him as a rider, and don't make much of him from interviews, but credit where credit is due, this could well be number 8 unless a few other pull up their game.

Is anyone else disappointed in Sastre this year? He's not figured in it at all, just seems to be taking it far to easy.

Sastre and the Schlecks are playing it cool I think (hope). I think we'll see some fireworks in the Alps.

Don't know if Columbia will be up for a serious chase today...I'm going for a break-away win for Samuel Demoulin from Cofidis (looked strong all tour so far).

What about Wiggins for an outsider ?
He's looked magnificent so far and is clearly riding well within himself.
Would he be far enough down GC to be allowed to get away with a break in the Alps?
Lets hope so. Come on Brad, put Le Chat among the pigeons

HHD, i was thinking exactly the same thing. Im also wondering what's going to happen between Armstrong, Contador and Leipheimer. With there being friction already, if it becomes each man for himself towards the end, it could make room for someone further down to exploit it.

Lets hope there's a lot of fighting towards the end.

I can't see Wiggo being up for a big attack in the Alps and dropping the others (would love to be wrong though)...having said that, I think he's got too much spirit and fight to do a Cadel and just hang on and play it safe.

Somehow, I can just see Andy Schleck going on the rampage at some point.

quote:

Somehow, I can just see Andy Schleck going on the rampage at some point.

You hope so don't you. Need this tour to get interesting!

quote:

Im also wondering what's going to happen between Armstrong, Contador and Leipheimer.

Something like a square go at the bottom of some Alpine pass maybe
Money would still be on the Texan.