CDS3 vs. Top Spec LP12??

Andrew Thomas' posts make interesting reading.

He clearly does not appreciate the magic of a good TT; thereby proving that this is all very subjective.

Wonderful specifications and low measured distortion will not deliver a sound that suits everybody.

That's why I started off by saying 'Comparisons are odious'.

I can enjoy both mediums in their own right. On the other side of the fence to Andrew Thomas; there are many Hi-Fi nuts who would still not have a CD player in the house!

As a kind of parrallel to this; I've been running my Quad 57's instead of SBL's.

They offer an alternative method of artificially reproducing my music.

They may not necessarily be 'right' but sure as hell put a smile on my face (and some visitors too)

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I'd prefer to think it was not VFM with regard to the LP12.

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Point taken...interestingly, I believe Linn carried out "blind" tests with the CD12 (£12k) vs their top spec LP12......guess which 80% of listeners preferred?

Laurie S

Laurie S

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That last paragraph presents two facts which are true. But I notice that you didn't follow through and compare the relative levels of distortion in CD playback with those in vinyl - I suppose conceeding CD has some high order harmonics probably 50dB down from the analog (vinyl) noise floor wouldn't help your case?

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And by that I infer that you have some evidence to prove that the subjective effect of these high order harmonics renders them inaudible due to the levels you quote?

It is well reported amongst the technical press and realised by many well-respected manufacturers / designers that the high-order components are the most audibly unpleasant, even at relatively low level.

Do you have any actual audio design experience to call upon here, or do you rely on information you've read?

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Oh look, now you've gone all "New Age" too

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One question - why do you listen to music, Andrew?

I don't see my comment as anything 'new age' at all, simply a realisation of why I, and most others here, listen to music.

The analogy with food is reaonable, we eat to sustain life, but find the experience much more rewarding when it appeals to our emotions via our various senses.

Describing the food on my plate in terms of it's chemical content, colour or texture tells me little, if anything, of use about how enjoyable the experience of eating it will be.

I don't believe gas chromatography or similar analyses will really add to the experience I get when sampling an old Ardbeg.

Andy.

Great post Andrew

The gas chromatography bit put a smile on my face.

I spent a couple days at the high-end audio portion of CES in Vegas last month, hearing dozens and dozens of configurations. Many cost much more than my pricey system. Most were tube based and many used TTs. Granted, the exhibitors were limited by the rooms and other practical setup considerations, but...

There was amazing componentry—TT setups that looked like space stations, speakers that reached the ceiling, etc. The sounds were certainly impressive, though mostly just entertaining. Less than a handful of systems were musically engaging, and certainly not related in any way to the type of equipment.

The best part, was getting home and hearing my high-end, highly tweaked, CDS3-based Naim/Vienna system again. Nothing I heard at the show came even close. My point is that, there are many ways to create impressive sound with audio equipment, but it is unrealistic to think that a TT or tubes are the last word in emotional, musically engaging reproduction.

Tom

Hi Tom

I was there too. I take it you are alluding to the 'serious' systems at Alexis Park?

I must concur with you. Nothing blew me away, or made me dissatisfied with my Naim systems (Naim sadly were not exhibiting at CES).

I made it out to The Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam and around Flagstaff, via Route 66 - Beautiful country.

"This disscussion is about the reproduction of music, and technical aspects thereof. It's not about the emotional response to music as a justification for junk science"

Andrew, I would like to know who decided that? Mike Lacey started the thread so who knows may-by he is interested in peoples emotional response between a top flight LP12 and a CDS3. I know I would be. It is definately more polite to ask the originator of the thread what the discussion is about rather than deciding for him. He has already, gently, tried to get it back on track but I think some people have decided he meant something else. You may want to ask him next time.

Sean.

And Hi to you J.N. Indeed, we spent most of the time at Alexis Park, the rest at St. Tropez.

Glad you made it over to some breath-taking northern Arizona spots. If you’ve never been to the southern Sonoran desert areas, it’s a must next time out. Apart from the acre-an-hour grating of the land here, it’s the neatest place I know. Why we even have a Naim dealer again here in Phoenix.

Tom

Sean

Thanks for your comments - its not often I do polite!

I noted the comment that you quote, and assumed that it was the particular bit of the thread that was being referred to. I actually find discussion about *why* one medium sounds good/bad to be genuinely interesting.

However, I really do want to hear from people that have compared CDS3 against a top spec LP12. At least part of this is because I have spent some years ( and £ ) getting my Sondek to a fairly high spec, and would like to know how it compares against what is probably the best CDP in the world.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy

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Objection! Misleading the witness!

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Far from it in my opinion, surely that IS the point. The sole purose of the reproduction of music is the effect it has on the listener. What is the point otherwise?

Personally I don't see the point in academic disussions for their own sake.

Andy.

Not (yet) compared the two side-by-side but both the Akiva and CDS3 are on the wish list and I have heard both in isolation.

I was at the LP12 versus CD12 event that Linn held two or three years ago (pre-silver T cable and Akiva) and I vastly preferred the LP12 on the day. I also visited Linn last year and during the stay in Glasgow heard a poorly set up CD12 based system (£70,000+ !!) which sounded shite. However, I pursuaded the salesman to pop an LP on a newly Akiva'd LP12 and it was sublime. A detailed comparison between the two was frankly pointless.

I would expect the CDS3 to "wipe the floor" with a CD12, of course, but, recently, the one piece of equipment that has really pressed all the right buttons was an LP12/Akiva.

Dave

Honestly, Andrew W you're too emotional. I used to be but part of the revolutionary Catkins Diet is to produce a series of 100 SEMs and a detailed FTIR analysis of any proposed foodstuff in order to ensure that it tastes shite with no enjoyment whatsoever.

Alex,

I was thinking of trying that one, but I'm not sure they are in season at present

Catkins

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Originally posted by PR:
Who the hell buys Linn, there's something seriously wrong shoulders down.

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Me, for starters.

Naim amps, but Linn TT and speakers.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and Happy