Sad reflections on the forum

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Originally posted by Nic Peeling:

Has anyone else noticed this and if so can anyone explain what has happened?

Nic P

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I was on the old forum a couple of years back and was quite shocked at the change when I returned a few months ago. Most of the problems do seem to be down to a few troublemakers who've driven many of the good posters away.

When I say troublemakers I mean those folks who're on hear mainly to pick a fight and cause controversy and who deliberately try to wind others up for fun. I like reading posts from people with a different take on things to myself but when it ends up with personal attacks or religious zeal in favour of their particular dogma I'm not interested.

For example I've rarely agreed with a word Vuk posted on music or hi-fi but I'd always enjoyed reading his contributions right up until to the series of posts that got him banned.

Regards
Steve

So, as well as, or even instead of moaning, why not start an interesting topic.

Alex

I really miss the days of the old forum

naheed

This is usually from non posters!

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We get lots and lots of people saying that this place is jolly good, top draw and all that!

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I'm also feeling like the forum is a pretty lousy place lately. Too may of the good members have gotten banned, or are simply fed up with it like me. Very few of the threads are genuinely intriguing (maybe 1 in 50 now, versus 1 in 5 a couple of years back). Consequently, I don't feel the urge to respond to them. When I do start threads, they often become spitting matches.

Many (not all) of the active posters seem shallow, self-centered and uninformed. As has been stated above, there are too many people picking fights. We mocked each other in the "good old days", but it always seemed to be in good fun (as understood by all the parties). Now it seems spiteful.

I used to check the forum a dozen times a day. Now I'm here only once or twice. I'm strongly considering writing it off, and finding something else to occupy my time. Sadly, many others here on the forum seem to be doing the same thing.

I don't know what the solution is.

• You can't really tell the "problem" members to piss off, but their continued presence will only exacerbate the situation.
  
• You've got a heavy-handed "moderator" applying his own form of censorship (of phrases, posts, members, etc.). He seems to measure forum success as "quantity, irrespective of quality". He claims that he's getting "We love the new forum!" messages, so I don't he's too motivated to fix what he doesn't feel isn't broken.
  
• To many of the good, old members are gone (either banned or alienated), and it's going to be hard to entice them back into our midst.
  
• Too many people perceive the forum as a joke and/or disappointment, and it may never regain its credibility. (I used to think of it as being very different from rec.audio.opinion, but there is much to distinguish it anymore.)
  

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I used to live on the Apple Forum, had over a 1000 posts, however I rarely visit nowers days, its no use blaming the forum its your interest in them that counts. Inevitably you may look in again in a few months and get back in.

People may feel that its unhealthy typing to virtual names about amplifiers, I certainly do.

Thats the trouble with forums, you just can't help it, the human need for communication. When the commmunication becomes repetative it becomes boring, people start sniping and starting rouge threads etc, because instead of saying to themselves, 'this is crap I'm going to listen to music' they sit there in front of the computer and type some more.

we are all guilty of it, and undoubtably things will return to the point of the forum instead of about the forum, soon.

Since then I have made some posts, few of which have generated much of a response, depite my trying to try what I thought was an interesting slant.
Naxo vs Snaxo http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=1981982133

Acoustic treatment of rooms http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=6461941213

What about teflon pads ? http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=8851925772

And in the padded cell
Little things ... http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=58019385&m=3431962272

Purchasing principles http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=58019385&m=8721921362

Quite why these have, in the main, failed to generate much response is a mystery to me. I have not posted recently simply because of the poor response to earlier posts. If you guys (and girls) wrote as well as read we would get some more life on the forum.

ALSO
I find posts that go off track but continue on the same thread somewhat tiring. For me anyway, staring a separate continuation thread where this is obviously sensible should be encouraged.

David

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'Is my opinion good enough for the big boys in here? Probably not, so I better dont write anything!'

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As in any public forum, you need to be comfortable with speaking out. If you're not sure of your observation, then mention that in your message. Don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't hesitate to accept when you've made a mistake. At the same time, you should try to stand up for yourself, without being offensive.

The more people that contribute, the better this forum can be. There will always be a few "stars", and those will change from day to day. In the end, though, it's an open community and not a members-only club.

=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by Mike Hanson:

As in any public forum, you need to be comfortable with speaking out.
=> Mike Hanson <=-

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I noticed the earlier post was Hakan's 92nd so he can't be that scared of speaking out.

And in your case Mike obviously you're not as it was your 1599th posting...

Regards
Steve

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Originally posted by Hakan:

And try to post pics of my DIY rack. (it's good)

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No!

Regards
Steve

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'Is my opinion good enough for the big boys in here?

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Your ideas and opinions are EVERY bit as valid as anybody else's here !

Also,

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And try to post pics of my DIY rack. (it's good)

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Please Do !

Regards

Chris

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So, as well as, or even instead of moaning, why not start an interesting topic.

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Alex has hit the nail right on the head IMHO.

It is our forum so we have a collective responsibility to make it interesting rather than sitting back and waiting for others to do likewise.

Lets all try to be less spectators and more performers.

Steve B

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I have the feeling that there is an elite among the contributors of this forum, and it makes me feel uncertain. 'Is my opinion good enough for the big boys in here? Probably not, so I better dont write anything!'

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Who knows?

I reckon some people really miss the old days and the JV ethos and just possibly, just maybe, these self same people are wondering where Naim, as a company, is heading? Maybe they don't like that? Who knows?

Personally I have come a long way in a very short space of time regarding all things audio after hanging round here -
Just today frinstance I had a conversation on the telephone with a very nice chap, who messes around with diamond stylii for a living, regarding the synergenistic quality of one particular cartridge against anothers compliance attributes in relation to my old deck and tonearm. Now, I'd garnered most of what I'd managed to bluff him with here!! Y'getme?

Made my day.

Time was when I'd feel the urge to Poot forth and tell all here about that experience. Not any more.

Maybe I should expand on that a little........

Maybe I shouldn't

What the hell.

Goodnight

3.0 - Yes!!!!!

P.

[This message was edited by P on THURSDAY 06 December 2001 at 00:07.]

I do hope that an open forum such as this is the place for such a topic.

Regards,

A regular poster who has enjoyed a few successes here as well as a fair amount of grief!

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3. Sept 11 became a watershead for me and the forum. The things affecting us members the most at that time was that business in the States. The decision to forbid the topic was patronizing, infantilizing and agravating in the extreme. I thought it self defeating. The forum shifted its central place and moved very much to the margin with its failure to allow us to express and discuss something very important to most of us. It helped put the forum in perspective. i.e. It is neither necessary nor adequate as a significant association.

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Did it ever occur to you that (on September 11th) those few Americans not glued to their television might have wanted to, for a brief moment, escape to this forum to think or discuss something else (as if one might have thought that a hi-fi forum might, or could, have solved world problems)?

What strikes me as a recurrent twist in the so-called "state of the forum" (this, or other newsgroups, or other company- or privately-sponsored fori) is the lack of propriety or sense of good taste--and the lack of reasoned, well-thought out discourse that encourages new visitors to return. I, for one, enjoy seeing the names (or aliases) of recent first-time Naim customers pop up (some of whom I might have had the opportunity to speak to during office hours) with relevant questions for you all to answer.

As for top-heavy forum participation, I generally find myself that many manufacturer-sponsored user groups can be easily read for content by perusing those posts emanating from the manufacturer's own domain. Legitimate questions and far-flung complaints go hand-in-hand as far as I can remember.

No need to tow party lines, but let's bring the level of things up past a lager-spewing brawl.

Dave Dever

[This message was edited by David Dever on THURSDAY 06 December 2001 at 04:44.]

Like others I have felt my 'lack of knowledge/deep experience' was a restriction on my ability to make meaningful/interesting contributions. I have generally listened to my system spending spare cash on music rather than hardware. Now I have begun to experiment and my first calls to the forum were for setting up advice.

Many topics have been done to death with the result that requests for assistance produce few responses. I find it interesting that some of the most vocal offer least advice.....Not true of all and I have been pleased with the help I have received. It is good to see members visiting each other and Mick Parry's offer to let someone listen to his stands was what you would hope for from a community interested in music.

The downside has been some of the language I have always thought that expletives reflected a lack of ability to articulate thoughts - they devalue the forum as does the slagging. Steve T with his graemlins lightens things but I can only agree with Juan Zenuff. The direction/future is down to us and at least we do have a forum!!!!

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I find it interesting that some of the most vocal offer least advice

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Alex

PS Vuk, please post a few pictures while your here.

For Naim and the forum, this is a circle, in which every time new comers are starting the path I described before.
As many of the members mentioned here before, and convinced me about it, because of the high prices of the equipment (and very high quality, of course!) We are all sharing the same goal, to do what we can in order to enjoy Naim’s products in the future.
It is clear, that most of the issues are coming here again and again because of the circle path of new comers who are standing against the same questions and problems
that the other members stood before, and answered them many times before.

I think that this is the way the things are going, and therefore members like Mike Hanson can find themselves bored many times, but in the same breath I think that Mike Hanson and others are very important to the forum here because of their knowledge and experience.

About political issues, they are not allowed here but in the other forum. Beside the fact that we love music and Naim, we are human being with some other thoughts and problems, and I don’t see what is wrong about talking about other subjects but Naim and music, especially if it is not here.
Imagine a fat member, who is on a diet, can he argue about people who are talking here about cooking? A member who wants to stop drinking, can complain about
Members who are talking about wine, and a fan of Chelsee – can argue about a member who wants to talk about the Hapoel Tel Aviv?

Arye

Forums like this also have a tension between what we might call "community based" vs "Subject based". ie. some people want a forum that concentrates on the matter at hand, threads stay on topic, is an effective and useful resource, etc. Others want something that is socially more rewarding -- more humour, banter, more emphasis on friendships and rivalries, etc. -- and place less and less emphasis on the original discussion subject.

The former are more useful, very worthy but can be a bit dull (Photo.Net is a good exmaple -- very useful, but if you tell a joke some deletes it for being off topic). The latter are much more fun, tend to have more committed long standing memebers and so on but have frequent arguments, childish behaviour, etc.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. The arguments work kind of like forest fires in that they flare up every now and again, a bunch of people leave and create space for new people move in. This is actually a good sign as it least it means the forum managed to stick around long enough to get to the mature stage of excessively childish behaviour. We've even get a few classic forum comedy villains ;-)

Matthew

I should like to take this public oportunity to pompously pronounce my retirement from this forum until aboout 4.00pm.

Alex

From a personal viewpoint when I first joined the Forum a couple of years or so ago, I was astounded by the depth of knowledge about Naim products, & I used to sell them! It was always a delight to get a reply from JV.

I guess that I now know all that _I_ need to know about Naim products & set-up issues. If I have an
enquiry I know exactly where to ask it. I think that I will always lurk here but, sadly, never feel the excitement that I did a couple of years ago.

I think it is a little like looking back at my school days. I feel that my days truly were the halcyon one's & that things have declined since my era. I'm sure many of the Forum contributers feel the same about the Forum.

IMO The Padded Cell is often the best place to hang out...Ahh... how I remember those debates on whether fish should be cooked with or without skin.....

Bob