To n-Vi or not to n-Vi

Posted by: dan scott on 17 December 2006

Hello everyone.

Well fate has chucked me a wild card today. My Harman Kardon AVR 8500 is refusing to come out of standby.

It's been playing up a bit recently turning itself off and just being a bit "quirky" for want of a better word.

Now it's not turning on and I use it for ALL my TV/Home cinema duties (Through B&W LCR600, 603s3 fronts, 600s3 Surrounds) so while it's out of action i've got the TV going through a set of battery powered Creative Travelsound speakers (Brings a tear to my eye for all the wrong reasons!)

So my eyes turn to alternatives as I really don't want to wait for weeks to get the AVR8500 repaired with the travelsounds (They sound great on an iPod on a beach in Thailand but not so great in my lounge lol!)

In comes the n-Vi... lots going for it and some heavy praise on lots of forums on the net from retialers and users. Also lots of glitches and some very dissatisfies customers for an unlucky few.

Here are my sources that would have to go through the n-Vi-

Pioneer 436XDE Plasma (Built in Freeview) currently connected via Optical cable.

Arcam DV79 connected via Digital Coax to the amp and HDMI to the TV's media box.

XBOX (Original) used as a media player occasionally connected via component to the TV and optical cable to the amp.

Pioneer DVD recorder connected via scart to the TV's media box. Sound goes to the amp via the optical cable from the TV (Gets to the TV via scart) - again rarely used.

I would sell the DV79 if I went for the n-Vi for obvious reasons!

One thing that does worry me a little is that the n-Vi only seems to have 1 digital (Optical) input - am I misreading?

Now most of the time my Harman Kardon is doing Logic7 processing on 2 channel freeview and so I get pseudo surround from standard TV. The rest of the time it is doing Dolby/DTS processing from the DV79.

Will the n-Vi be the solution for me? I guess alternatives would be an Arcam Solo video in the new year or just an Arcam AV350 now.

I'll get the AVR8500 fixed up and then pass it on to a new home in the new year - what an amp i'll miss it! So much power and control - absolute bargain!!! unfortunately it's conked out at Christmas

Also will the n-Vi's 50wpc be enough to push my B&W 603's (I know they're Naim 50WPC not other "lesser" manufacturers claimed figures)

I thought that in the future if I did get the n-Vi I might in the future combine my stereo setup (Nait5i, CD5, Ariva's) into the AV setup as when I buy my own place I won't have as much space as I do now and may not be able to have a seperate AV and stereo setup so could hopefully end up with-

n-Vi
Nait5i
CD5
Ariva's
n-SAT's (After selling B&W's)
Naim Centre (The name of it escapes me)

Please give me your opinions and ideas, I could do with the help (Really wasn't planning this one!)

Posted on: 23 December 2006 by Mike1380

OK... D'oh!

It's got two HDMI's (which I'll leave for real HD devices), and a component-enabled VGA port.
Will get Chord Co to make me a 3BNC-VGA lead for that purpose - the Sharp I've seen has an n-Vi into it in just that fashion and it's farking astounding how good the scaler is in that set when fed 576/480P component

Posted on: 23 December 2006 by john R1

mike, i use a component to vga for my tv-drive, its a canare lead i bought of the av-forums for around £20, works very well

Posted on: 24 December 2006 by Mike1380

Will bear that in mind.
Picking up the Sharp in 30mins - had my hand forced by the scart board of my aged Panasonic cooking itself last night - aaaargh.

Settling for a 37inch XD1 - but it's gonna be a very cinematic chrimbo

Posted on: 26 December 2006 by Mike1380

Err.. nope!

Scaler on the Sharp seems to be at its' best with Component input from the n-Vi.... but worth trying both on any screen of this type

Posted on: 28 December 2006 by Mike1380

I prefer to trust my eyes rather than specifications when it comes to what quality is.

If I use DVI then the picture is NOT as good on my Sharp as if I use component.

In fact it's miles worse - largely because there appears to be a sync issue between the two items.

I'm perfectly happy to use component to give me a stunning picture and leave my spare HDMI socket free for other toys

Posted on: 28 December 2006 by dan scott

it depends a lot on your tv imho as Mike says. I'm just the opposite however as my Pioneer has notoriously sub-standard analogue processing (Well it's nopt that bad maybe I exaggerate a little), it's digital processing however is excellent and so HDMI wherever possible for me.

Posted on: 28 December 2006 by dan scott

On an update to this thread, I'm still hoping to go demo-ing next week-end ish to do n-Vi vs. Arcam AVR350+DV79 (The DV79 bI already own) vs Arcam Solo DVD (If available)

I'm still a bit wary about the possibility of buying a problem child with the n-Vi as I will use the optical input which seems to be the basis of all the problems with the unit (If you don't get the power supply issues that is..)

I can see what will happen though, the n-Vi will sound like a Naim, the Arcam won't and i'll have my DV79 for sale a week later with an n-Vi sat in my lounge and me posting on here about why I have to turn it off and on all the time!

I have thought of one thing that could definetly favour the AV2, both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both decode sound in the player and output sound either over the HDMI or via a maximum of 7.1 analogue outputs.

Now as we all know the n-Vi doesn't have a 5.1/7.1 analogue channel input whereas the AV2 does. That does make the n-Vi a risk for the future as you'd have to run downmixed dolby digital/dts over the optical or coax inputs...
Anyone had any thoughts on this one already?

Posted on: 31 December 2006 by dan scott

unfortunately the lack of 5.1/7.1 direct inputs in the n-Vi is possible killing the deal a bit for me (I wish I could afford an AV2/NAPV175 combo and use my Nait5i for the fronts!)

I just know that one day I may want to pick up a HDDVD player or other high-def format and won't be able to enjoy the Dolby HD sound.

I imagine I will of changed my mind again by tomorrow (Sorry I'm very indecisive) I might start a thread seperately to see what current nVi owners think about this and what they plan to do (If anyone has any opinions plwase feel free to post here to save multi-thereading). I was looking at the HD DVD's in Harrods yesteday and thinking how great it will be when Hi-Def is the norm!

Again, the AV2 is probably just what I need, unfortunately it's just out of reach!!!

Posted on: 01 January 2007 by nap-ster

The Arcam AVR-350 has 7.1 inputs

Posted on: 01 January 2007 by dan scott

but it's not a naim.... I can just see me being unhappy with having a non-naim component in my system when I do eventually integrate my stereo and home cinema (And go all Naim with my speakers too)

Listening will be the key I feel as I'll need to know how the Arcam will sound with the Nait5i going off the pre-outs for the front speakers as that will be the configuration it will be used in.

I've been doing some figures today to try and see how much of a stretch an AV2 + NAPV175 would be over 12 months... quite a stretch and it would mean i'd have to integrate my 2 setups now (My current room suits the 2 systems approach better than one) and adding a NAP150X so I wouldn't need the Nait pushes the budget completely out the window!!! (However the 150/150X's are easier to find second hand unlike the 175's so I could just run 3 channel until I can afford a used 150/150X)

Posted on: 02 January 2007 by nap-ster

Dan,

I have the AVR-350 as my AV amp. The front left and right go out to a 202/HiCap/NAPSC/250 set up. It certainly doesn't let the side down.
The reason I didn't go Naim for the AV was purely a case that the majority of my AV listening would be through a SkyHD optical link.

Posted on: 02 January 2007 by Frank Abela

Dan,

ISTR that Naim actually envisaged Naim buyers upgrading to surround sound specifically with a Nait5i. Their original plan had been that customers would add AV2/175 to the nait5i for complete surround allied to best stereo. As I recall, they specifically recommended this approach as opposed to the AV2/150x/175 since the Nait's simpler preamp stage is preferable to the AV2's.

In your case, this means you'd just (!) have to find the cash for the AV2/175 and only consider an upgrade if/when you want to go to 122x/150x or better. The AV2/175 is about 10% more expensive than the n-Vi, but it has much more flexibility and is superior to the n-Vi when combined with a decent DVD player.

Posted on: 02 January 2007 by dan scott

Hi everyone, well I've had my n-Vi demo today..

In short I was very very impressed!!!

I demo'd films, music (DVD based) and music CD's. Speakers were n-Sat's, NCent and the surrounds were roof mounted speakers (Unsure of the brand/model) Plasma screen was by Lowe which I wasn't too keen on (The picture quality wasn't great - a bit blurry)

The steering on the effects in i-Robot and Return of the King were fantastic! very detailed and emotive. Speech was very nicely articulated from the NCent (Gonna have to get me one of them sooner or later!) CD replay through the n-Sat's was definetly on a par with the Nait5i/CD5i N-Sat demo I had a month or so ago (I love the pace from those speakers)

If they'd of had one in the shop I'd probably of had one here now. Luckily for the finances the lack of stock stopped an impulse buy!

So the N-Vi was a success, now just the niggles in the back of my mind-

1) No 5.1/7.1 analogue input meaning if I went for a Hi-Def player in the future it would have to downmix it's sound in to DD/DTS and pass it down the optical/coax cable to the N-Vi.

2) No DTS Neo6/ProLogic 2 processing of analogue inputs (I thought the whole point of these surround modes was to upconvert 2 channel - which is normally analogue to a surround format) I have Logic7 on my current Harman Kardon AVR8500 and really enjoy freeview with the Logic7. Only having one optical input means I wouldn't be sure which of my 2 channel sources would get it to be converted to Neo6 for example (Freeview, XBOX, Wii)

So thats about it really, the couple of doubts in my mind between me dropping £3k on a N-Vi or reconsidering...

I'd rather keep my stereo and home cinema systems seperate in the flat i'm in at the moment so my Nait5i wouldn't be available for 2 channel duties for while. So I could go for an AV2 and a NAPV175 (I can get the pair for £3k at the moment on an ex-dem AV2 and new NAPV175) That would mean keeping my Arcam DV79 as the DVD5 would be out of my league for a while/indefinetly.

What does everyone think?

Thanks again!
Dan

Posted on: 02 January 2007 by john R1

dan, apart from the odd optical input fault can't reccomend the n-vi enough,plugged my boys x-box 360 into it today all the games out-putted correctly via the n-vi, ie 3.2.1 or dolby digital 5.1 what ever you want to call it, the only strange thing was when he turnes the x-box off, he left the n-vi turned on, when i looked it said system fault on the display, not sure what this meant, just turned it off for a couple of mins, switched back on and all was well again,

Posted on: 02 January 2007 by dan scott

what is it about that optical input??!!!

It's not like it's a new idea... at £3,000 it shouldn't have a system fault when you turn off an xbox. Is there any news on a firmware update to fix the optical bugs?

I don't mind about buying a product that has 'niggles' my dvd player had more than a few difficulties in it'a life but Arcam were very forthcoming with fixes and now it is faultless (Touch wood!)

It was quiet funny, the dealer today is on N-Vi no.3 in his own home and yet he doesn't mind. (Not even he could understand why he didn't mind that they kept breaking)

Posted on: 06 January 2007 by dan scott

In summary with the title of the thread to N-Vi or not to N-Vi I personally have not N-Vi'd instead I have gone for an AV2 and NAPV175.

Thanks for all your help in what has been a v.difficult decision!!!

Posted on: 30 January 2007 by Tuan

quote:
Originally posted by dan scott:
In summary with the title of the thread to N-Vi or not to N-Vi I personally have not N-Vi'd instead I have gone for an AV2 and NAPV175.

Thanks for all your help in what has been a v.difficult decision!!!

LOL... If you were serious about home theater amplification, buy a Bryston system. Bryston don't make toys. They make real machines.

Posted on: 30 January 2007 by dan scott

wow, who rattled your cage today?

Posted on: 30 January 2007 by Tuan

quote:
Originally posted by dan scott:
wow, who rattled your cage today?

For home theater:
Best DVD player: Sony PS3
Best amplification: Bryston
Best speakers: Totem Model 1 Signature

Posted on: 30 January 2007 by PJT

quote:
Originally posted by Tuan:
quote:
Originally posted by dan scott:
wow, who rattled your cage today?

For home theater:
Best DVD player: Sony PS3
Best amplification: Bryston
Best speakers: Totem Model 1 Signature

In Your Opinion...