Why the Tories have lost the Election.
Posted by: Tarquin Maynard - Portly on 29 March 2010
1. "Look at him, he's RUBBISH" is not good enough a critique. "Trust us, we'll be OK" is not exactly a powerful or convincing message.
2. Not raising NICs sounds good, until you recall that they do not have any coherant strategy to raise the monies elsewhere. "Further efficiency savings"? That means not giving the lowest paid 2/3rds of Civil Servants a payrise - which not only penalises the (already low paid) lower grades, it by implication feathers the nest of the higher earners.
3. "We'll re-negotiate cotracts": and get sued for Breach of Contract if the result reduces the profit margins of the counterparty.
4. Increase Inheritance Tax thresholds so that c.1000 can benefit is just looking after the old boy network. Most people here, I strongly suspect, have their house as their Nil Rate Band (£325k. )
5. Cameron sounds like an overexcited school boy, and is rapidly losing credibility. His constant habit of calling for the most obvious solution to any problem and either calling Labour "copycats" or "indecisive" is beneath even the 4t Form Debating Society, let alone a man who wants to lead the UK.
6. Nobody seriously believed that Cameron welcomed the recent announcement of the domicility of his most important donor. He did it to avoid the embarrasment of an FoI disclosure. Lord Paul has been an acknowledged non Dom for many years. Its always been known.
7. The state of the economy, and the Government debt, has been caused by greedy banks, not Gordon Brown. The supposed alternative implicit in the Tory polemic is that they'd have let the UK banking system collapse. This would have been economic disaster on a cliched but unprecedented scale.
The Tories are not good enough.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:
Originally posted by OscillateWildly:
Hello David,
Sure, the gods of property, credit and celebrity, abrogation of responsibility and discipline, but all a thin layer on top of a pubic sector foundation.
Cheers,
OW
Pubic sector - oh boy, bit of a slip.
General note - can't edit my posts after logging back in. Can someone point me in the right direction please.
Thank you,
OW
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by 151
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
I have a friend who says he will not vote for Cameron because Cameron went to Eton College. He would never vote for anyone who went to Eton College.
Not voting for someone because they went to Eton College is as prejudiced and stupid as voting for someone because they did go to Eton College surely?
did you tell your friend he/she was stupid.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Nathaniel
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
Not voting for someone because they went to Eton College is as prejudiced and stupid as voting for someone because they did go to Eton College surely?
Well, not quite: given that the set of people that didn't go to Eton is far, far, far bigger than the set that did, in a purely numerical sense, it's less to discriminate against those that did go to Eton, than those that did.
A meaningless argument, obviously.
And yet in some ways, it gets straight to the point: I guess your friend was trying to express a niggling concern shared by many--it seems unlikely that someone from such an extreme margin of society could be capable of meaningful empathy for the majority who are so socio-economically far-removed from the politician's experience. Therefore the politician will have little concern or understanding of how best to steer a country (even if a government was capable of such a thing) such that their lives would, in some sense, be better.
But even that seems spurious--many (though probably a minority) of those from very privileged backgrounds, perhaps benefiting from the freedom of thought provided by their wealth, are able to comprehend the struggles of the less fortunate. And similarly, those from the poorest backgrounds are often the fiercest proponents of self-reliance, self-responsibility and have a hunger for individual success that is so often associated with the right wing.
Yet even this is simplistic stereotyping. People are much more complex and the weighting of factors in one's judgements of them should be suitably nuanced.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Sister E.
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
I have a friend who says he will not vote for Cameron because Cameron went to Eton College. He would never vote for anyone who went to Eton College.
Not voting for someone because they went to Eton College is as prejudiced and stupid as voting for someone because they did go to Eton College surely?
Personally I ONLY vote for people who went to Harrow
Sister xx
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by tonym
I went there on a bus once. But I'm not intending to stand for parliament so I suppose I won't get your vote then.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Mike Dudley
I predict that on the day after the election result is known, sniper will tell us that he predicted it, without actually telling anybody his prediction beforehand, but only having written it down in his secret book.
I further predict that he will refer to me by the very clever nom-de-plume that he made up, thereby ensuring that he won't. That's because of course for me to say that, would pre-empt any surprise created by his completely original prediction. So he will, just to prove me wrong in saying that he won't... Clever sniper.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Sniper
Actually Mike,
I would not like to predict who will win, I'm not really interested in politics.
Nathaniel,
I have many friends who went to Eton none of whom are super rich. They had hard working professional parents who made many sacrifices to send their boy there. One of my closest friends who went to Eton is a consultant psychiatrist and you could not meet a more down to earth and compassionate person. I am sure there are some right tossers there but there are some right tossers in state schools too. He sent his son there also - not that you would suspect it if you met the son who generally dresses like a complete scruff and works for Médecins Sans Frontières.
Cameron does not impress me much - too glib - too Blair.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Sniper
quote:
Originally posted by 151:
[QUOTE]
QUOTE]did you tell your friend he/she was stupid.
Of course i did.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Mike Dudley
quote:
Originally posted by Sniper:
I have a friend who says he will not vote for Cameron because Cameron went to Eton College. He would never vote for anyone who went to Eton College.
Not voting for someone because they went to Eton College is as prejudiced and stupid as voting for someone because they did go to Eton College surely?
Sniper "not being interested in politics", earlier...
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Dev B (on the wheels of steel)
I think the tories would have a better chance of winning if they had Joe Kinnear as their leader. Cameron is hated by the majority of Tories as Mick correctly has pointed out. Vote for Gordo - that's what I say!
regards Dev
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by JamieL_v2
I must say I was disgusted by the cons' posters I saw in Wakefield this week. Interestingly I have not seen them in Leeds, looks like they are targeting the same kind of voters that voted in deprived areas who could be swayed by morons like the BNP.
Anyway here is the poster, by Saatchi and Saatchi, that I found most unpleasant.
I then realised that with a can of paint it could be improved no end.
Must just nip out to the nearest Halfords.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by Bob McC
"Today I have been mostly stealing ideas from Barak Obama."
Dave's latest facile gimmick is 'neighbourhood armies'.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by JamieL_v2
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by 151
quote:
Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
I must say I was disgusted by the cons' posters I saw in Wakefield this week. Interestingly I have not seen them in Leeds, looks like they are targeting the same kind of voters that voted in deprived areas who could be swayed by morons like the BNP.
Anyway here is the poster, by Saatchi and Saatchi, that I found most unpleasant.
I then realised that with a can of paint it could be improved no end.
Must just nip out to the nearest Halfords.
thats the best the masters of advertising Saatchi and Saatchi can come up with,absoultly pathetic what sort of morons must they employ.
Posted on: 31 March 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:
Originally posted by 151:
quote:
Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
I must say I was disgusted by the cons' posters I saw in Wakefield this week. Interestingly I have not seen them in Leeds, looks like they are targeting the same kind of voters that voted in deprived areas who could be swayed by morons like the BNP.
Anyway here is the poster, by Saatchi and Saatchi, that I found most unpleasant.
I then realised that with a can of paint it could be improved no end.
Must just nip out to the nearest Halfords.
thats the best the masters of advertising Saatchi and Saatchi can come up with,absoultly pathetic what sort of morons must they employ.
I would have preferred 'One-eyed, two-faced'. As to the morons employed, people similar to those coming up with the guano for Labour's campaign.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
quote:
Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
Absolutely bloody spot on Mike. With your permission I am going to copy this elsewhere.
Of course, Bob.
I hope you are well.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by Tarquin Maynard - Portly
I heard Cameron on R4 this morning; I found his "when faced with tricky question, talk rapidly and obfuscate" approach really quite annoying.
His voice is starting to grate.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by Lontano
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
His voice is starting to grate.
Mike, politicians can do that to you. I feel like puking every time I hear/see Brown.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Lacey:
I heard Cameron on R4 this morning; I found his "when faced with tricky question, talk rapidly and obfuscate" approach really quite annoying.
His voice is starting to grate.
Mike,
Should have seen the Three Stooges - Byrne, Mandelson and Darling - this morning, always laughable.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by mongo
quote:
Originally posted by JamieL_v2:
I must say I was disgusted by the cons' posters I saw in Wakefield this week. Interestingly I have not seen them in Leeds, looks like they are targeting the same kind of voters that voted in deprived areas who could be swayed by morons like the BNP.
Anyway here is the poster, by Saatchi and Saatchi, that I found most unpleasant.
I then realised that with a can of paint it could be improved no end.
Must just nip out to the nearest Halfords.
How can this poster be 'disgusting'? and why might it appeal especially to the BNP nutters?
I found it quite amusing.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by 151
quote:
Originally posted by mongo:
How can this poster be 'disgusting'?
because the photos look like they are making the most of the medical problem brown has with his eyes and in my opinion thats well below the belt for supposedly descent people.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by Lontano
This looks just as bad. It's going to be a rough six/seven weeks. I just heaved up over my keyboard.
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by 151
is that for real?
Posted on: 01 April 2010 by dn1
This poster campaign was reported in the Guardian this morning. Did you check the name of the journalist who wrote the story??

Posted on: 01 April 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:
Originally posted by 151:
quote:
Originally posted by mongo:
How can this poster be 'disgusting'?
because the photos look like they are making the most of the medical problem brown has with his eyes and in my opinion thats well below the belt for supposedly descent people.
151,
The overriding image is the grin.
Medical problems/disabilities - if someone in a wheelchair is a nasty piece of work, the wheelchair should not be protection against them being considered vile.
Cheers,
OW