Why the Tories have lost the Election.
Posted by: Tarquin Maynard - Portly on 29 March 2010
1. "Look at him, he's RUBBISH" is not good enough a critique. "Trust us, we'll be OK" is not exactly a powerful or convincing message.
2. Not raising NICs sounds good, until you recall that they do not have any coherant strategy to raise the monies elsewhere. "Further efficiency savings"? That means not giving the lowest paid 2/3rds of Civil Servants a payrise - which not only penalises the (already low paid) lower grades, it by implication feathers the nest of the higher earners.
3. "We'll re-negotiate cotracts": and get sued for Breach of Contract if the result reduces the profit margins of the counterparty.
4. Increase Inheritance Tax thresholds so that c.1000 can benefit is just looking after the old boy network. Most people here, I strongly suspect, have their house as their Nil Rate Band (£325k. )
5. Cameron sounds like an overexcited school boy, and is rapidly losing credibility. His constant habit of calling for the most obvious solution to any problem and either calling Labour "copycats" or "indecisive" is beneath even the 4t Form Debating Society, let alone a man who wants to lead the UK.
6. Nobody seriously believed that Cameron welcomed the recent announcement of the domicility of his most important donor. He did it to avoid the embarrasment of an FoI disclosure. Lord Paul has been an acknowledged non Dom for many years. Its always been known.
7. The state of the economy, and the Government debt, has been caused by greedy banks, not Gordon Brown. The supposed alternative implicit in the Tory polemic is that they'd have let the UK banking system collapse. This would have been economic disaster on a cliched but unprecedented scale.
The Tories are not good enough.
2. Not raising NICs sounds good, until you recall that they do not have any coherant strategy to raise the monies elsewhere. "Further efficiency savings"? That means not giving the lowest paid 2/3rds of Civil Servants a payrise - which not only penalises the (already low paid) lower grades, it by implication feathers the nest of the higher earners.
3. "We'll re-negotiate cotracts": and get sued for Breach of Contract if the result reduces the profit margins of the counterparty.
4. Increase Inheritance Tax thresholds so that c.1000 can benefit is just looking after the old boy network. Most people here, I strongly suspect, have their house as their Nil Rate Band (£325k. )
5. Cameron sounds like an overexcited school boy, and is rapidly losing credibility. His constant habit of calling for the most obvious solution to any problem and either calling Labour "copycats" or "indecisive" is beneath even the 4t Form Debating Society, let alone a man who wants to lead the UK.
6. Nobody seriously believed that Cameron welcomed the recent announcement of the domicility of his most important donor. He did it to avoid the embarrasment of an FoI disclosure. Lord Paul has been an acknowledged non Dom for many years. Its always been known.
7. The state of the economy, and the Government debt, has been caused by greedy banks, not Gordon Brown. The supposed alternative implicit in the Tory polemic is that they'd have let the UK banking system collapse. This would have been economic disaster on a cliched but unprecedented scale.
The Tories are not good enough.
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by Mike-B
Problem with comments like that is you need to get it into context with the hell of the previous years with Wilson & Callahan, winters of discontent, mad men running the unions, anarchy, strikes, rubbish rotting in the streets, inflation over 20%, UK the joke of Europe, value of the pound dropping like a stone, business going under.
You might not be of the age that experienced it, but if you think the Thatcher years were bad, they were heaven compared to those labour inflicted years. Believe me I was there.
You might not be of the age that experienced it, but if you think the Thatcher years were bad, they were heaven compared to those labour inflicted years. Believe me I was there.
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by mongo
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
Jonathan,
I agree with every word. The terrible thing is that people have forgotten what the Thatcher/Major government was like - or else they didn't live through it. The Tories make slightly different noises now, but how much have they changed? There's been no Kinnock style-purge of the right wingers.
I think many tory voters are lambs to the slaughter. They don't know what they're letting themselves in for.
Blinkered???
See mike B's post. If you were too young, get a book. Really my friend you seem to need a broader/wider perspective.
Paul.
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by Derek Wright
Sad thing is that the benefits that Jonathan Gorse is so pleased about have not been paid for and will not be paid for for years, unless he is happy to move onto a 50% or more income tax regime and a 30% Vat rate.
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
What I find comforting is the fact that as posters on the Naim forum the majority of you are probably on above average incomes, yet there seems to be a definite left leaning mentality here.
It seems to me that if you care about wider society then you simply cannot vote Conservative as my experience of them last time was that they don't care if the NHS or state education collapses because most of their supporters don't use it - their children are privately educated and they have private medical insurance. They don't care if old people or unemployed people are living in poverty so long as they can cut high rate tax or inheritance tax for those who already have so much. They are resolutely anti-union and frankly for the ordinary working man the union is the only thing that protects your income from inflation.
After over ten years labour government what I see is that our local primary school is superbly equipped, modern and clean, the local hospital which I'm currently attending is impressively equipped and efficient. My wife was recently seen by her GP, referred to a specialist within about 3 weeks and is scheduled a (low priority) minor op within 12 weeks. She'd have waited 3 years under Maggie.
We received some government help with childcare costs - all new initiatives under Labour, more people than ever are going to University, our mortgage has plummeted in terms of repayments, manufacturing industry e.g. Naim, motor industry etc seems to be doing better than it did under the last Conservative Government - in short I'm happy with Labour's achievements and the fact they do care about those less fortunate.
There have been gaffes - the raid on pension schemes, non-Dom tax, Iraq and a too lax immigration policy but on balance it's not a bad record.
The frustrating thing is that living where I do (Chichester constituency) I haven't a hope of getting Labour in so am voting Liberal for tactical reasons. My sole objective remains stopping the Tories getting back in, ever.
I think tactical voting is going to be incredibly important this time and I find the idea of a hung parliament with Lib-Lab coalition rather refreshing.
As somebody who should demographically vote Conservative (public school educated, live in Sussex, high rate tax payer, white collar) even I'm astounded at how nauseating I find the prospect of a Conservative victory and how vitriolic I feel towards them!!
Jonathan
Jonathan,
Most of their supporters - evidence?
They don't care - as potty as me saying Labour supporters either scrounge off the Welfare State, or are union members who spend their time drinking tea and moaning rather than doing a fair day's work.
Low inflation - longer debt servicing?
Schools, hospitals ... - how much is the mortgage? Who will pay it? Could money have been spent a lot better to achieve a lot more?
Childcare - should benefits be received if the child is not mentally/physically handicapped?
Plummeting mortgage repayments - savings income and annuity rates for pensioners?
Care about those less fortunate - sink estates? None of the parties really care.
Record - 1.4 trillion debt.
David Scott?,
How many Public Sector jobs do you think would be lost under Labour? A figure please, rather than the mantra 'less than under the Tories'.
I do remember Thatcher and not all of it was bad. The problem was her driving force; revenge - it consumed her and pushed her over the line, kicking people who were already down. I don't believe Cameron's motive is close to being the same.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by Mike-B
quote:The problem was her driving force
You may be right, but I would add "control freak" especially as applied to her so called cabinet. Then her arrogance & belief that she alone was the savour of this country, eventually leading to what I seriously believe has a name in psychology.
But the unbelievable mess, the raging inflation and the record national debt (sound familiar ?? ) that was left after years of labour mismanagement was her inheritance. And no matter what your elegances are, the math & stats over those years clearly show she made some sizeable inroads into inflation & debt, she did put industry partly back on its feet & she fixed the union problem. The problem was that whilst her policies did succeed it was at the cost of unacceptably high unemployment & that was her nemesis. The positives she gained from the Falklands War plus the still divided labour opposition gave her the landslide victory in 1983. After that IMO she was then past her sell by date, but she soldered on & won a then unheard of 3rd term. Controversial policies, unemployment, poll tax & her opposition to the EU caused the rebellion in the party & out she went, tears & all.
I'm looking forward to a change as I believe any country needs a regular change in political government, its a refresher.
Thatcher was right at the time, as was Labour under Blair, but he eventually got too big for his boots making unwise "presidential" decisions whilst up George Dubya's anal gland & he too stayed well past his sell by date (pity about his appointed & unelected successor). I agree Cameron is nothing like a Thatcher, but I see him as a far safer bet than more years of stale out of ideas labour, but I do look forward to the time when labour led by someone like Ed Balls is back.
The biggest problem I see is the crazy situation with vote share (%%%) & seats won disparity.
Radical reform is needed - but I don't think anyone except the LD's have the stomach for it
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by JRHardee
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by David Scott
OW,
unlike some here I am not in the business of plucking numbers pointlessly out of the air. What possible good do you think it would do for me to name a number? What currency could such a prediction possibly have?
I'm a great believer in picking the lesser of two evils, so less than under the Tories will do for me, particularly as it's a slightly more reasonable prediction than most.
The winter of discontent was a particular historical moment, the culmination of a long chapter in the story of British political development. I don't think 'labour mismanagement' is an adequate explanation and I certainly don't think the current labour party is remotely the same animal as the one that Wilson and Callaghan knew. What isn't clear is whether the Tory's realisation that there might actually be such a thing as society after all is any more than spin deep. Labour (eventually) used the years of opposition to painfully re-invent itself. I haven't really noticed the tories doing the same.
Thatcher's party were overtly callous and uncaring: they appealed to the self interest of a particular band of British society and told them everyone else was feckless and undeserving. This wasn't a hidden agenda - it was out in plain sight.
I never liked New Labour. I never voted for them with any conviction, but as the prospect of losing them looms closer I value them more and more. They were immensely more humane than the Tories and I'm afraid we might all be about to get the kind of society that nobody really deserves, because a lot of people don't understand what they're voting for and an awful lot of others don't care.
I have a postal vote by the way and voted Lib Dem. I was happy to do it, particularly as the Lib Dem incumbent here is a decent constituency MP. Definitely the lesser of the two evils on offer, by a comfortable margin.
unlike some here I am not in the business of plucking numbers pointlessly out of the air. What possible good do you think it would do for me to name a number? What currency could such a prediction possibly have?
I'm a great believer in picking the lesser of two evils, so less than under the Tories will do for me, particularly as it's a slightly more reasonable prediction than most.
The winter of discontent was a particular historical moment, the culmination of a long chapter in the story of British political development. I don't think 'labour mismanagement' is an adequate explanation and I certainly don't think the current labour party is remotely the same animal as the one that Wilson and Callaghan knew. What isn't clear is whether the Tory's realisation that there might actually be such a thing as society after all is any more than spin deep. Labour (eventually) used the years of opposition to painfully re-invent itself. I haven't really noticed the tories doing the same.
Thatcher's party were overtly callous and uncaring: they appealed to the self interest of a particular band of British society and told them everyone else was feckless and undeserving. This wasn't a hidden agenda - it was out in plain sight.
I never liked New Labour. I never voted for them with any conviction, but as the prospect of losing them looms closer I value them more and more. They were immensely more humane than the Tories and I'm afraid we might all be about to get the kind of society that nobody really deserves, because a lot of people don't understand what they're voting for and an awful lot of others don't care.
I have a postal vote by the way and voted Lib Dem. I was happy to do it, particularly as the Lib Dem incumbent here is a decent constituency MP. Definitely the lesser of the two evils on offer, by a comfortable margin.
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by u5227470736789439
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
George,
I find a great deal to admire in your contributions to this forum, but your sweeping absolutist predictions of doom and gloom are not, in my opinion, your finest moments. Your last post is however a splendid illustration of the fact that you're not a natural tory voter.
Best wishes,
David
Dear David,
It is quite possible to have a conservative mindset [prossibly with a smal "c" as in my case], and still care about the plight of people less well blessed.
I am sure that I share this breadth of view with many others.
I find that a lack of financial prudence always ends in tears. Not one single exception to that in my experience.
But I hope we can disagree in our political views without falling out at a personal level. Some of my best friends [in real life] are genuine socialists - true red hot examples some of them!
ATB from George
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by David Scott
George,quote:It is quite possible to have a conservative mindset [prossibly with a smal "c" as in my case], and still care about the plight of people less well blessed.
Of course it is. But it's still my opinion that you're not a natural tory voter. And I'm not convinced that the rules we live by in managing our household expenses necessarily carry over seamlessly into running a country.
I don't think we're at risk of falling out. Unless you're trying to tell me something?
All the best,
David
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
OW,
unlike some here I am not in the business of plucking numbers pointlessly out of the air. What possible good do you think it would do for me to name a number? What currency could such a prediction possibly have?
...
and
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
...
I think many tory voters are lambs to the slaughter. They don't know what they're letting themselves in for.
David Scott?,
There are those of the electorate who are in Cloud Cuckoo Land with regard to the level of cuts and the effect on employment; differences by party re the magnitude of Public Sector job losses would likely be marginal. I get the feeling that on this many Labour/Liberal Democrat voters are misguided. Asking for a rough figure was to see where you stood.
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by u5227470736789439
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
George,
...
I don't think we're at risk of falling out. Unless you're trying to tell me something?
All the best, David
Dear David,
What you see, [or in this case read] is what you get with me! Very rare that I would "tell" anyone on this forum, and if I did do it I would be leaving them in doubt that they "had been told!"
Don't worry, I enjoy this place too much to nit-pick! It has been known for me to fall foul of some individuals, but my fuse is very long these days!
Very best wishes from George
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by David Scott
OW,
We are obviously in for cuts whatever happens, but within that there is room for choices and differences of emphasis which can make real differences in the lives of vulnerable people. Like I said, I'm a great believer in choosing the lesser of two evils.
David
We are obviously in for cuts whatever happens, but within that there is room for choices and differences of emphasis which can make real differences in the lives of vulnerable people. Like I said, I'm a great believer in choosing the lesser of two evils.
David
Posted on: 04 May 2010 by OscillateWildly
David,
Fair enough.
Not looking forward to it whoever gets in.
Night,
OW
Fair enough.
Not looking forward to it whoever gets in.
Night,
OW
Posted on: 05 May 2010 by David Scott
quote:You might not be of the age that experienced it, but if you think the Thatcher years were bad, they were heaven compared to those labour inflicted years. Believe me I was there
quote:Blinkered???
See mike B's post. If you were too young, get a book. Really my friend you seem to need a broader/wider perspective.
I was there too, and Heath's Government didn't deliver anything better - three day week? Like I said earlier I think that was a particular historical moment and it's facile put the difficulties experienced down to 'mismanagement'.
Thatcher was something else though. I can't imagine why you think life was better under her. Perhaps it depends where you were living.
Mongo,
Don't you think there's something loathsome about misusing the word 'friend' in that way?
Posted on: 05 May 2010 by mongo
No.
Posted on: 05 May 2010 by David Scott
Well there is.
Posted on: 05 May 2010 by mongo
quote:Originally posted by David Scott?:
Well there is.
In your opinion friend.
Posted on: 05 May 2010 by Jonathan Gorse
Oscillate wildly,
Trying to answer your points in turn:
Most of their supporters - evidence? - Well by far the majority who live around me are high earners and simply want the lowest possible taxes they can get so they return more of their earnings. They seem to forget that tax is what pays for the NHS and schools amongst other things. The Tory plan to raise the inheritance tax threshold is a fine example of benefitting the already very wealthy when by anyone's admission we should be reducing the debt certainly not cutting the taxes of the well heeled.
Low inflation - longer debt servicing? Agreed
Schools, hospitals ... - how much is the mortgage? Who will pay it? Could money have been spent a lot better to achieve a lot more? I don't doubt that there are inefficiencies in the NHS and schools, however this is unavoidable in any large organisation. BY far the largest impact on the debt however has been caused not by the NHS et al but by the need to bail out the banks - whose modus operandi and rewards became far more excessive and speculative after Margaret Thatcher deregulated the City of London in the mid eighties - unleashing the dogs of war in my view...
Childcare - should benefits be received if the child is not mentally/physically handicapped? Yes, however they should be means tested and better targeted.
Plummeting mortgage repayments - savings income and annuity rates for pensioners? Totally agree they are hurt by this - not sure there is an answer though.
Care about those less fortunate - sink estates? None of the parties really care.
I disagree with this - I do think the Lib-dems and the Labour party care.
Record - 1.4 trillion debt. See above
As an aside a little story for you. My Sister's husband owns a business making furniture for schools and offices. Sometime ago they sought to recruit a welder at a salary of around £20k. A few people turned up to interview but declined the job saying they expected at least £25k - this went on for months. My Sister's husband bleated endlessly that he simply couldn't afford to pay anyone £25k for the job - financially not viable for the business etc. He recently took delivery of a new Aston Martin DB9 with a host of extras pushing the price closer to £150k. I'm afraid most business owners I have come across are like him - they don't care that the ordinary man is earning so little he couldn't spare the cash for an Aston Martin T shirt let alone a car. I believe the little people deserve their share of life's dreams too - whether that's being able to run an old MG, buy a Naim amp or take the kids to disneyland. I haven't seen Cameron say once that he wants to make the everyman's life better and his desire to raise inheritance tax (and bear in mind it's already £700 000 for a couple) simply reinforces my view that he wants to make the DB9 owner's life better, not the welder...
Jonathan
Trying to answer your points in turn:
Most of their supporters - evidence? - Well by far the majority who live around me are high earners and simply want the lowest possible taxes they can get so they return more of their earnings. They seem to forget that tax is what pays for the NHS and schools amongst other things. The Tory plan to raise the inheritance tax threshold is a fine example of benefitting the already very wealthy when by anyone's admission we should be reducing the debt certainly not cutting the taxes of the well heeled.
Low inflation - longer debt servicing? Agreed
Schools, hospitals ... - how much is the mortgage? Who will pay it? Could money have been spent a lot better to achieve a lot more? I don't doubt that there are inefficiencies in the NHS and schools, however this is unavoidable in any large organisation. BY far the largest impact on the debt however has been caused not by the NHS et al but by the need to bail out the banks - whose modus operandi and rewards became far more excessive and speculative after Margaret Thatcher deregulated the City of London in the mid eighties - unleashing the dogs of war in my view...
Childcare - should benefits be received if the child is not mentally/physically handicapped? Yes, however they should be means tested and better targeted.
Plummeting mortgage repayments - savings income and annuity rates for pensioners? Totally agree they are hurt by this - not sure there is an answer though.
Care about those less fortunate - sink estates? None of the parties really care.
I disagree with this - I do think the Lib-dems and the Labour party care.
Record - 1.4 trillion debt. See above
As an aside a little story for you. My Sister's husband owns a business making furniture for schools and offices. Sometime ago they sought to recruit a welder at a salary of around £20k. A few people turned up to interview but declined the job saying they expected at least £25k - this went on for months. My Sister's husband bleated endlessly that he simply couldn't afford to pay anyone £25k for the job - financially not viable for the business etc. He recently took delivery of a new Aston Martin DB9 with a host of extras pushing the price closer to £150k. I'm afraid most business owners I have come across are like him - they don't care that the ordinary man is earning so little he couldn't spare the cash for an Aston Martin T shirt let alone a car. I believe the little people deserve their share of life's dreams too - whether that's being able to run an old MG, buy a Naim amp or take the kids to disneyland. I haven't seen Cameron say once that he wants to make the everyman's life better and his desire to raise inheritance tax (and bear in mind it's already £700 000 for a couple) simply reinforces my view that he wants to make the DB9 owner's life better, not the welder...
Jonathan
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by dn1
Well, I voted at 7.15 am.
As the saying goes... "vote early, vote often"
Pity I can't follow the second bit of advice... it will take a lot to shift our constituency's incumbent.
As the saying goes... "vote early, vote often"
Pity I can't follow the second bit of advice... it will take a lot to shift our constituency's incumbent.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Bruce Woodhouse
I made a prediction at the start of the campaigns and I'm sticking to it.
Narrow 'win' for Tories but may need support of the 'others' to make a working majority. I think we'll have another election within 12-18/12 and a new Lab leader with a Lib/Lab coalition the outcome second time around.
Bruce
Narrow 'win' for Tories but may need support of the 'others' to make a working majority. I think we'll have another election within 12-18/12 and a new Lab leader with a Lib/Lab coalition the outcome second time around.
Bruce
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by OscillateWildly
quote:Originally posted by Jonathan Gorse:
Oscillate wildly,
Trying to answer your points in turn:
Most of their supporters - evidence? - Well by far the majority who live around me are high earners and simply want the lowest possible taxes they can get so they return more of their earnings. They seem to forget that tax is what pays for the NHS and schools amongst other things. The Tory plan to raise the inheritance tax threshold is a fine example of benefitting the already very wealthy when by anyone's admission we should be reducing the debt certainly not cutting the taxes of the well heeled.
Low inflation - longer debt servicing? Agreed
Schools, hospitals ... - how much is the mortgage? Who will pay it? Could money have been spent a lot better to achieve a lot more? I don't doubt that there are inefficiencies in the NHS and schools, however this is unavoidable in any large organisation. BY far the largest impact on the debt however has been caused not by the NHS et al but by the need to bail out the banks - whose modus operandi and rewards became far more excessive and speculative after Margaret Thatcher deregulated the City of London in the mid eighties - unleashing the dogs of war in my view...
Childcare - should benefits be received if the child is not mentally/physically handicapped? Yes, however they should be means tested and better targeted.
Plummeting mortgage repayments - savings income and annuity rates for pensioners? Totally agree they are hurt by this - not sure there is an answer though.
Care about those less fortunate - sink estates? None of the parties really care.
I disagree with this - I do think the Lib-dems and the Labour party care.
Record - 1.4 trillion debt. See above
As an aside a little story for you. My Sister's husband owns a business making furniture for schools and offices. Sometime ago they sought to recruit a welder at a salary of around £20k. A few people turned up to interview but declined the job saying they expected at least £25k - this went on for months. My Sister's husband bleated endlessly that he simply couldn't afford to pay anyone £25k for the job - financially not viable for the business etc. He recently took delivery of a new Aston Martin DB9 with a host of extras pushing the price closer to £150k. I'm afraid most business owners I have come across are like him - they don't care that the ordinary man is earning so little he couldn't spare the cash for an Aston Martin T shirt let alone a car. I believe the little people deserve their share of life's dreams too - whether that's being able to run an old MG, buy a Naim amp or take the kids to disneyland. I haven't seen Cameron say once that he wants to make the everyman's life better and his desire to raise inheritance tax (and bear in mind it's already £700 000 for a couple) simply reinforces my view that he wants to make the DB9 owner's life better, not the welder...
Jonathan
Jonathan,
Supporters - our experiences are different; some as you describe, others from modest backgrounds who have done well and don't forget, and those working men/women who have built an 'estate' and want to pass it to their family. To me Inheritance Tax is abhorrent. Regarding the level; what does GBP one million buy in the metropolis? What if you have lived there for a decade, let alone two or three?
Banks - those who borrowed had to live beyond their means, had to expand, had to consume ...
Savings accounts - legal minimum plus rate; e.g. base rate plus 4%?
Cheers,
OW
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by MilesSmiles
Wow, if the exit polls are right the Conservatives just miss an absolute majority but there is no possibility of a Lab/ Lib alliance. If correct, this must be very disappointing for the Lib Dems - down on seats.
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by u5227470736789439
It is the least bad result given the prediction of a hung parliament.
All IMHO, of course.
ATB from George
All IMHO, of course.
ATB from George
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
I made a prediction at the start of the campaigns and I'm sticking to it.
Narrow 'win' for Tories but may need support of the 'others' to make a working majority. I think we'll have another election within 12-18/12 and a new Lab leader with a Lib/Lab coalition the outcome second time around.
Bruce
Bruce, get down the bookies. You may well be right.
Joe
Posted on: 06 May 2010 by Bruce Woodhouse
Wonderful, an election where everyone seems to have lost! Paxman having a whale of a time as a result.
I watched a couple of hours and enjoyed the whole surreal fun of the Returning Officers and their moments of fame. 'Spot the affiliation' was a good game with the candidates arrayed behind; UKIP and the Greens being especially easy I found. I loved the individual with the clenched-fist salute and menacing sunglasses standing behind Gordon Brown at his count. I'm assuming it was not his security officer...
Bruce
I watched a couple of hours and enjoyed the whole surreal fun of the Returning Officers and their moments of fame. 'Spot the affiliation' was a good game with the candidates arrayed behind; UKIP and the Greens being especially easy I found. I loved the individual with the clenched-fist salute and menacing sunglasses standing behind Gordon Brown at his count. I'm assuming it was not his security officer...
Bruce