Can Someone Please Explain

Not much of an answer Matthew, I was not being rude, just failed to see the point of your post. If you were truely into music and not hifi, why post it in a hifi related forum?

djc -- The choice of glaciers was deliberate as they seem to neatly sum up the best and worst of the stuffy old organist (at least in my uneducated experience).

Geoff P -- Not really a track picker myself although obviuosly my daytime MP3 listening does inform my evening CD listening to some extent.

Matthew

garyi,

You said "Its been posted on a hifi forum, indicating a holyier than thou attitude"

Its been posted on a hi-fi forum becuase, well its about hi-fi. I have no idea why you think this denotes a "Holier than thou" attitude on my part and it seems oddly and unduly defensive on your part.

"If music is your life and not hifi, stop posting in hifi forums"

a) I never said music was my life you did.

b) The vast majority of my posts are in the music and padded cell sections and, fwiw, my rare forays into the hi-fi section are in proportion to my level of interest in the subject.

c) Questioning one's own approach and attitude to hi-fi and its relationship to music seems an entirely appropriate use of a hi-fi forum to me and, if my may be so bold, at least as interesting as most dicussions that occur here.

d) In part I am trying to decide if I should sell my expensive Naim hi-fi and if I did would I miss it. This is a fairly major decision and if you can recommend somewhere more appropriate to discuss it I'd be very interested.

e) I could of course have said if you are not interested in discussing the role of hi-fi in the enjoyment of music why are you posting on a thread on that very subject but that would have been a bit petty and not terribly constructive.

Matthew

Matthew,

You're a lucky person - some things can be over analysed, I'd just enjoy it!

Andy.

Matthew,

Your topic is a very relevant one, probably particularly for those of us with demanding careers, thriving social lives, and/or guilty or busy consciousnesses (sp?). Personally, I barely have enough time to enjoy one album per day at home. So, I get my fill while in my car, at my desk at work, and even waking up to my alarm clock radio. My current system cost less than a new NAIT5, but I enjoy listening to the music recommended by you and others on it immensely. It's also the most expensive system I've owned(!). Great music can be enjoyed with any gear. The emotional connection remains, and that's the most important thing IMO. At the very least I've spent <10% as much as most forum members but arguably get at least 90% as much enjoyment out of my system. You can certainly do the same, if you choose.

Now, regarding the quantity of music, I've had an interesting experience that might be interesting to you. I started dating a girl who loves music (her sister is a studio vocalist; mom teaches music; she plays piano and sings) yet she owns only a few dozen CD's. Monday I told her how I sold a bunch of CD's and 37 more just arrived from Amazon. Her reaction was "Wow, how do you even get to enjoy it??? I mean, I love buying one or two CD's and listening to them over and over, learning any lyrics, reading the liner notes, sharing it with friends..." This might not resonate with you, but for me it brought to mind a period of my life where I did what she does, and I realized I did enjoy music even more then compared to today. Perhaps I'm caught up in trying to build the most complete pop music collection at the expense of truly getting my money's worth?

Luckily, as you may or may not have seen in a Pink Fish thread, I've caught myself before spending thousands of dollars impractically. Now I will right-size*. I guess in summary my point is don't feel pressured to go one way or another, but do exactly what will put a smile on your face whether you're listening to music, considering your bank balance, questioning practicality and living with your choices, or whatever.

I hope my jibber jabber is even just a shred useful.

(* For me the major issues were time constraints, highly sacrificed and imperfect listening environment, no interest in a dedicated listening room, guilt when so many others have so little and/or don't need such elaborate systems, interests in spending on traveling and my social life, feng shui in my living space, fear of upgraditis and or tinker-madness, and many other lessor variables.)

[This message was edited by Ludwig on WEDNESDAY 17 September 2003 at 23:20.]

Maybe it's time to sell the Naim system and have some fun putting together something rather different. How about something a professional might use as a monitoring system? More utilitarian and less 'hifi'. Less chin stroking and more checking out a pile of demos.

Paul

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:

d) In part I am trying to decide if I should sell my expensive Naim hi-fi and if I did would I miss it. This is a fairly major decision and if you can recommend somewhere more appropriate to discuss it I'd be very interested.

---

I can fully understand the concept of making do with headphones. I love listening to music this way and if I lived alone, had no mates and could shake this obsession I have of driving my neighbors insane I might consider the same course of action. I could pay off a goodly chunk of mortgage and have more money for whores and crack-cocaine. Sadly my life is not that insular. The loss of my system would leave a huge hole.

Matthew, are you really considering ditching your kit or is this just a cry for help ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ludwig:
Now, regarding the quantity of music, I've had an interesting experience that might be interesting to you. I started dating a girl who loves music (her sister is a studio vocalist; mom teaches music; she plays piano and sings) yet she owns only a few dozen CD's. Monday I told her how I sold a bunch of CD's and 37 more just arrived from Amazon. Her reaction was "Wow, how do you even get to enjoy it??? I mean, I love buying one or two CD's and listening to them over and over, learning any lyrics, reading the liner notes, sharing it with friends..." This might not resonate with you, but for me it brought to mind a period of my life where I did what she does, and I realized I did enjoy music even more then compared to today. Perhaps I'm caught up in trying to build the most complete pop music collection at the expense of truly getting my money's worth?

---

Ludwig,

Well said mate. What you described is exactly what I am trying to achieve these days. Your collection should grow at a rate that promotes familiarity without over-familiarity. When I look for the next CD to put on I want to be excited about the prospect of hearing something that I haven't played for a while that is either already on the A team or is still bedding in to my subconscious. I don't want to feel boredom or panic.

"e) I could of course have said if you are not interested in discussing the role of hi-fi in the enjoyment of music why are you posting on a thread on that very subject but that would have been a bit petty and not terribly constructive."

You just did, but was doing so necessarily petty and not terribly constructive?



Regards,

Steve.

Ludwig said "[she] loves buying one or two CD's and listening to them over and over, learning any lyrics"

I know exactly what she means and still do exactly that with my favourite CDs (Stephen Malkmus's "Pig Lib" has been this years sing-a-along in the shower classic). But I do also have a bunch of CDs I listen to rather less exhausitvely. A lot of this is becuase the Interweb and more disposable income make buying relatively more CDs possible and of becuase I have a job where I can listen to music all day and so have the time to do so.

Paul said "Maybe it's time to sell the Naim system and have some fun putting together something rather different"

IU am trying to imagine somethign less fun than putting together a secondhand hi-fi system
I still think Naim is better than the rest so if I do sell I'd almost certainly buy another one only smaller and find something more useful to do with the change. LP12/CDX + Nait + SBLs/Kytes sounds about right.

Hockman -- You summed it up pretty well. Although I don't regret buying my fancy system for one moment as I have had huge enjoyment from it over many years and have discovered lots of music and made a fair few new friends in the process.

Matthew

young man in a hurry

Jamie,

fourteen days on this forum and you don't even read the thread before you barge in?

Herman

Herm,

Since I am now no longer in the 25-34 demographic I am thinking of acquiring a pair of half moon spectacles so I can look over them imperiousl at the likes of young Jamie and shake my head sadly.

Matthew

quote:

---

In part I am trying to decide if I should sell my expensive Naim hi-fi and if I did would I miss it. This is a fairly major decision and if you can recommend somewhere more appropriate to discuss it I'd be very interested.

---

Matthew, why don't you turn the system off, unplug it and I guess you'll very soon answer that question.

Andy

I guess ther must be some individuals that are not affected by music, ALL THE TIME.

I have to admit any type of music heard under any circumstances affects me at some level. If it is horrendous sounding to my ears and taste it registers for all the wrong reasons but the majority of the time the connection is enjoyable.

It doesn't matter the circumstances or the quality of reproduction some inherent emotional content and the flow of the composition comes through loud and clear. It can even be the "muzac" so populary in shopping and public environments. Here it is certainly not about the quality of delivery. The relaxing effect and "comfort" transmitted by the music overides that.

So maybe it is "comfort" associated with retiring with an after dinner drink to the listening room at home and playing some favourite music on the HiFi which has added value because of the superior presentaion.
In other words it is not the HiFi kit itself that guarantees a superior quality musical experience it is part of the "comfort" package that makes home listening attractive compared with the other listening experiences.

regards
GEOFFP

If you sell it, you will soon regret it.

Stick with what you got and just carry on buying more music.

Regards

Uncle Mick

Nick said

"The primary cause for my dithering has been the question: “Does a more expensive system allow one to get closer to the music?”."

No is the answer. We are essentially complicit in propogating what amounts to Naim's marketing message and we are happy to do this largely because it is easier to justify (or simply sounds more impressive) than the more realistic reasons you outline later.

I'm with you on the "wibble" bit btw.

Andrew said "why don't you turn the system off, unplug it and I guess you'll very soon answer that question"

Becuase I can always switch it back on so it doesn't really work. What I need to know is if I am sitting enjoying my CDS2/Nait/SBLs would I really miss my current system.

Geoff P said "In other words it is not the HiFi kit itself that guarantees a superior quality musical experience it is part of the "comfort" package that makes home listening attractive"

There's a lot in that. Certainly it seems obvious to me that the difference between base Naim and hi-end Naim is *tiny* compared to the difference in performance of my system between me in a good mood or me in a bad mood, or after a few pints, when West Ham have won, etc.

Uncle Mick,

Rest assured that as I experience a certain amount of inertia when doing anything more taxing than getting out of bed the status quo is likely to win out by default.

Matthew

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:

Becuase I can always switch it back on so it doesn't really work. What I need to know is if I am sitting enjoying my CDS2/Nait/SBLs would I really miss my current system.

---

Matthew,

Downsizing is something you have talked about in the past and you should try it. I have a friends Nait 2 and quite often I try CDS2/Nait2/SBL and see if I find it as musically convincing as the 52/250. The short answer for me is no, it isn't as musically convincing, like many here I love my music, but teh bigger set up gives me more of the sound that I love and I enjoy it more. For sure if I was well trolleyed the Nait vs 52/250 difference would be less compelling!

You need to try the comparison for yourself, my experience is that rhe CDS2/Nait/SBL gives a really fantastci sound but teh 52/250 is miles better, but you might have different priorities.

The only reason why I don't listen to a 552/500/etc is that it will in all certainty be amazing and I can't afford it (new daddy, skint, etc, etc)

Dev

I'm enjoying my sistem now. Cost about 5 grand all SH. Probably cost around 15 grand to replace from new. I had a lesser sistem for years. Rega 3, At cartridge, Cheapo Sherwood CDP, Audiolab 2000 and monitor audio 325s. For years it rarely got listened to and I hardly bought any software. But I loved music as much then as I did when I was 16 or as I do now at 50. This current sistem gets to the root of musical enjoyment in spades. Anybody considering getting shot of a first class sistem, unless in dire straits financially, really needs their head examined. My first great sistem was LP12/Ittok/Asaka, 32.5/Hicap/250 into Saras. Had it for 3 years at the end of the eighties. Had to sell it of bit by bit due to long term unemployment,and as I say I just stopped listening to the items that replaced it for over twelve years. Please, Please don't sell a good satisfying system as you will almost certainly regret it later.

Yours in Music

Syd

matthew, if you decide to sell your 135's, please let me know -- i might be interested.


enjoy


ken

gentlemen, has it ever occured to any of you that the reason many of us feel compelled to purchase high level naim systems is that it satisfies some intrinsic part of our inner selves, some portion of our personality that is genetically predetermined. Don`t laugh yet. As an example. look at acoholics or serious gamblers- there is scientific evidence of a genetic predisposition for these habits. I know myself that I can enjoy music just as much on my car radio as on my Naim system (cds2/52/135s etc.). I clearly obtain a real pleasure or high from the hi fi equipment itself. Now, before you all go ranting about being an audiophile and someone not interested in music, just hi-fi, I would state that I LOVE MUSIC and I don`t consider myself just an "audiophile." Now I am being somewhat tongue in cheek just bringing up the possibility of a "gene" for loving hi fi but I got to tell you I think there is some basis for this. I suppose with gene therapy being at the forefront of medicine, maybe there is a chance for cure! Matthew, I think that you have brought up an interesting topic, one for which there is no answer, unfortunately. I get pleasure BOTH from the music and from the hi fi equipment. I could not downgrade without losing some essence of my enjoyment of life- though I could enjoy music just as much. Matthew, by the way, you might want to consider getting a S/H 52/super to replace your 82/hi, then you will never downgrade!!! Just kidding (I think), davidf

"Incredibly sad"? We're not talking about starving Ethiopians.

I suspect that Matthew's answer won't come from this thread, but from both sorting out his priorities and his gut feeling.

My position is that "very sad" isn't a phrase appropriate for this thread. Get a grip.

I'd also add that the decision will only be deemed "right" or "wrong" by Matthew, and since he's a sharp guy that'll likely come before he takes action. Some here seem to think they have the answer, which is just plain stupid.

Sorry. Back to the topic...

[This message was edited by Ludwig on THURSDAY 18 September 2003 at 20:55.]

I seem to have been making this decision for about 3 years now so I doubt I am in much danger of rushing into anything

Matthew

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Nick said

"The primary cause for my dithering has been the question: “Does a more expensive system allow one to get closer to the music?”."

No is the answer. We are essentially complicit in propagating what amounts to Naim's marketing message and we are happy to do this largely because it is easier to justify (or simply sounds more impressive) than the more realistic reasons you outline later.

---

Matthew. I wish I was like you - the master of the universe, able to pass summary judgement on subjective questions like this with such certainty. It must be nice to be able to reduce the infinite world of colour in such matters to black and white. Oh what a fool I have been believing that my own expensive Naim system was an investment that was paying a divided in enhanced musical appreciation.

You may be able to help me with something else. I am wondering whether to move to Alaska or Kenya. Do I prefer warmer or colder climes ?