New Naim Subwoofer

Paul:

A passive sealed box sub using the DBL arrangement would have to be pretty large. There were a home made pair for sale on Ebay a few weeks back in Germany and they were quite large. An active version in an Isobarik configuration could be fairly small though.

I think Linn has proved quite well that you don't have to have a huge sub to go very low. The Sizmik 10.25" goes to 30 Hz and is quite small. It's a sealed box unit and it times pretty well. Musical too. They now have a larger version that goes even lower but I have not heard one. They also make the Melodik which is in an Isobarik configuration (with a port though) and I imagine it works similarly. M & K also makes an Isobarik sub that works pretty well too.

A sealed box sub does not have to be large and can still be musical while going quite low. It will likely require a lot of power so it would probably have to be active. There are many examples of this Rel, Carver, M & K, Linn, and quite a few more. The Rel and Linn units, I've heard them both, are musical and can be made to time fairly well. They aren't perfect though.

Of course it would be easier with a port, but that would probably not be an acceptable solution.

Having it integrate properly with the main speakers would be the hardest part.

Arthur Bye

Naim Sub(s)

My understanding is that Naim are producing a sub for their home theatre systems.

At present, Naim use M&K subs at their hifi shows. A DVD player is in the offing for September, and my guess is that a sub will appear at the same time. This will enable an 'all Naim' home cinema......appart from the screen!

NB seems to be having doubts about the bass capability of his SL2s. He has had them for three weeks and isn't happy with the bass.

My advice has been :-

1. make sure they are properly installed and fully functional (Naim did this so no probs there)
2. give them the full break-in period (my guess would be about two months)
3. make sure the cd/pre/power are all fully run-in (again, two months)
4. consider NBLs if the bass doesn't deliver (are the NBLs as good in the treble/mid as the SL2s)

My suggestion to consider a sub was meant to highlight the point above, that SL2 + Sub would probably cost more than NBLs and not sound as good. Otherwise.....good bye NBLs...

If Naim do produce a sub, I bet a few will try it with Intros, Credos, Allae, etc in a two channel system.

Cheers

Don

quote:

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Originally posted by Arthur Bye:
Paul:

They also make the Melodik which is in an Isobarik configuration (with a port though) and I imagine it works similarly. M & K also makes an Isobarik sub that works pretty well too.
Arthur Bye

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I'm confused here as I can't understand how Linn (or anyone)can make an Isobarik with a port?

Yours in Music

Syd

Syd:

In an Isobarik configuration the rear speaker can be sealed or vented. The Linn Melodik and the Totem Mani-2 are two examples of a vented Isobarik. I imaagine you get a few extra db of efficiency doing this, probably at the expense of timing though. I think Neat uses this configuration too.

The more traditional Isobarik congfiguration has the rear speaker enclosed like the Linn Isobariks. I'm sure this is why Briks are so well regarded with their bass timing.

I'd sure like to see a Naim speaker with an Isobarik configured bass(sealed). You'd stop hearing all those complaints about Naim speakers being bass light.

Arthur Bye

Could somebody explain what exactly is an Isobarik speaker?

Cheers

Tony

Interesting post!


As many of you may know I have a pair of SL2's on home dem at the moment. I think the SL2 is a wonderful speaker but lacks clout!

Until reading this post the only alternative (from Naim) was to consider a pair of NBL's. Now I find there are rumours of a Naim subwoofer starting to appear. Now if I could retain the speed,detail,transparancy and smoothness of the SL2 while enhancing the weight and scale with a subwoofer I would be very happy.

So what to do? try a pair of NBL's, get the weight and scale but lose some of the SL2's delicacies or wait for a subwoofer to enhance the SL2's.

Come on someone give us a clue?

Regards

NB

Yes it would Tom, I wonder if a revised NBl is in the pipeline and whether it will be this side of £10K.

Regards

NB

Tom,

why not?

I am sure that Naim have plans to replace the DBL's sometime. The DBL's have been arround for sometime now!

The thought of a speaker the size of the DBL with the qualities of the SL2,

Mouth-watering!!

Regards

NB

Tony wrote:

quote:

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Could somebody explain what exactly is an Isobarik speaker?

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Tony: do a search in Lycos or Google. You should be able to bring up some drawings of what it looks like.

Basically in an Isobarik configuration you have two drivers(woofers), one is immediately behind the other and is also out of view. They both run together. The chamber in between them is sealed. From the front it just looks like a normal speaker.

The rear speaker effectively serves to fool the front speaker into thinking that is has a much larger cabinet behind it. The result is much deeper and well controlled bass. Of course driving two speakers takes more power than one so the speaker is less efficient.

There are actually many variations on this theme that are called Isobarik, but this was the original from Linn and is what most people think of when you say Isobarik.

Typically the rear speaker, which is out of view, has a sealed chamber behink it. More recent designs like the Linn Melodik, Totem Mani-2, M & K (all), and Neat Ultimatums have the rear driver in a ported chamber. A lot of Flat Earthers feel that the ported driver is a no-no as is screws up the timing.

Arthur Bye

Thanks Arthur!

More than extra bass

I've had other REL subs in the past, of the ported type. I've been missing that 'sub-thing' of late; so have purchased a 'sealed box' REL Q400.

It seems to work very well in my 'difficult' room. Set-up is of course, critical; but with the 'Roll Off' crossover point, set to its lowest (26 Hz) and not much gain, there is a very pleasant underpinning below where the SBL's give up.

What a lot of people don't realise, is that a sub (or full frequency loudspeaker) will open up the 'acoustic' and spatial information of a recording. This is a wonderful enhancement to material, with no apparent bass whatsoever!

The Q400 will apparently produce 14Hz at -6db in room. If you like what your current speakers do already; and can't accommodate bigger speakers, this is a viable solution if you're looking for a 'bigger' sound.

The corner placement is reccommended by REL in the excellent set-up instructions, and does indeed seem to 'drive' the room better than in non-corner placement.

If there is a sub at some point wonder what it will do for all us IBL people as well.

Andrew

JN,

The corner placement is reccommended by REL in the excellent set-up instructions

Errr....the door ???......

Cheers

Don

NB,

If Naim ARE developing a sub, my GUESS is that it will be for home theatre and would would be a bit of a compromise with a pair of SL2s.

If your SL2s don't develop the bass you want, then I think you will need to look at other speakers.

My short list to audition would include NBLs, Amarti Homage (I like the look of them!) and B&W802s,

I hope the SL2s do deliver for you, otherwise it could be long haul before you (and some others here) find an acceptable compromise.

Cheers

Don

So what to do? try a pair of NBL's, get the weight and scale but lose some of the SL2's delicacies or wait for a subwoofer to enhance the SL2's.

Come on someone give us a clue?

Errrrrr.....Doug, Paul, Richard..........I think this is your opportunity to excell.....

Cheers

Don

But I guess if it came out people would still complain that it didn't do "proper" bass even if it went down to 12hz

only if it delivered the bass out of sync with the main speakers.....and bloated the bass.........and.....

Cheers

Don

Hi folks, I did see some years ago a horn type transducer that was suposed to go down to 6 hz it was developed by the French military, its use apparently was to distroy buildings by vibrating them to bits, it also had the advantage of causing internal organs to rub together and cause death by internal bleeding would this be low enough bass for you ?
Oldie.

it also had the advantage of causing internal organs to rub together and cause death by internal bleeding would this be low enough bass for you

....only if this was a faithful reproduction of the original recording and complete PRAT.....

Cheers

Don

Don

Well spotted!

It's still a corner and seems to work better than half way up a side wall. I may be able to liberate a proper corner in time.

Set-up is critical. It must be subtle and 'underpin' the main speakers, or Mr PRAT will leave the building!

It's working so well; the front has blown off!

http://www.rel.net/products/Q400E.shtml

t's working so well; the front has blown off!

Looks neat either way

Cheers

Don

Your photo highlights a problem think nearly everyone in britain must share and that is that we have windows, fireplaces, cupboards, alcoves and entrances all over our living rooms. I dont think I've ever been in a house yet, old or new, that was perfect in this respect.

Yours in Music

Syd

Oooh, rumours like this are so 'tempting'

My SBL's do great bass down to 30Hz on specs, and -6db at 25Hz in room re one review I've read, but I do miss that real feel it as well as hear it true infrasonic bass of low organ pedals etc, and dinosaur footstomps etc when in use for HT.

I've been considering a sub; either M&K, Velodyne, or REL, and new contender here in OZ, Whise who are making some very impressive subs re new patented technology. Check out their website for an explanation.

BUT, getting something to blend as seamlessly as possible with the SBL's is the prime imperative, and ports just don't cut it for me either in that regard.

I JUST SO HOPE that this is not just a rumour, and that something is under development. If so, this is the best news I'll have heard for quite a while re my Naim journey towards HiFi perfection.... sigh...

Come on guys, who can confirm or deny??

Lets know what's in the pipeline, this is too exciting for words...

Cheers

John...

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

Well

The silence from the Naim camp/'authorities' is 'deafening.

So, ah, ahem, to take a slightly different tack on this one.

As Naim currently do not manufacture a speaker that could justifyably be called capable of full bandwidth reproduction with the exception of the DBL's, ie true infrasonics below 20Hz, one must ask a question or two.

Do Naim feel that the current offerings of subwoofers from other manufacturers are so good, that they cannot be improved upon, and therefore there is no point in Naim manufacturing one themselves?

Perhaps Naim do not have the manufacturing expertise, or perhaps design expertise, being mainly an electronics manufacturer, to build a High-End subwoofer. ??

Anyone??

Being the devils advocate here, and a cat amongst the pidgeons as it were.

Come on Naim, what gives?

Cheers

Stirringly yours

Johnboi

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

Mnnn, I think you're right Tom, certainly the release of almost a complete line of AV gear would indicate a sub could be on the books for release at some time or other.

As usual though, as you point out, Naim are neither confirming or denying.... sigh.

Cheers

John

Populist thinking exalts the simplistic and the ordinary

I just received the new Spring 2003 News Letter. There is a picture of a sub (looks like the front of the ALLAE top box). No info, no name, just a picture.....

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.