Mathematically, what is the total number of possible songs there could be?

Lots.

Somewhere between infinity and Sir Fred's pension.

Regards

Stephen

and - infinity is not as big as you think.

1 - there are 12 notes in an octave,
and there are notes between those notes.

2 - there are an abundant number of rhythms possible, especially if you consider multi-meter possibilities.

3 - there are any number of voicings possible, especially for a 90+ member orchestra.

4 - there are multiple harmonic systems, each of which have a great varity of possible chord progressions and key changes.

however many songs that allows for can be multiplied by 3, to account for retrograde, inverted and retrograde-inversion.

so it's like asking how many stars are in the universe. not infinity, but more than humans are able to count.

and popular music of all stripes has used up a tiny fraction of what is possible. in purely musical terms, it would be very difficult to show that rock music has used up even a thousand possibilities.

to sum up, more song possibilities than the human race will be able to exhaust.

and if i'm wrong, we can all play Hesse's "Glass Bead Game".

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:
1 - there are 12 notes in an octave,

Actually the OP was right - there are actually 8 notes (hence the name). However, you are correct in that there are 12 semitones in the western scale and an infinite amount of microtones in between.

I think infinite is a good estimate!

Regards

Stephen

I worked out the answer during my coffee break on my calculator watch. It is:

545435435413541574157878779715715715355715415

You can all go back to sleep now.

Regards
DB

P.S Someone please kill Nickleback.

quote:

Originally posted by dave brubeck

You can all go back to sleep now.
.

Can't we Take Five?

Stephen

quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Bennett:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikeeschman:
Actually the OP was right - there are actually 8 notes (hence the name). However, you are correct in that there are 12 semitones in the western scale and an infinite amount of microtones in between.

an octave would be the distance between 2 consecutive notes of the same letter. in between those two notes, there are 12 tones inclusive of the octave. an individual major or minor key only uses 8 of those notes, but those notes still exist, as key changes amply demonstrate.

i have books full of one and two octave chromatic scales.

if you are talking about how many songs you can write, you would want to use all available keys, so all twelve notes would be in play.

question is, do you want to count a song's transposition to a different key as a new song? if not, you would find yourself writing as many songs as possible that incorporate key changes, to up your tally.

it works for "Lush Life" :-)

quote:

Originally posted by mikeeschman:

an octave would be the distance between 2 consecutive notes of the same letter. in between those two notes, there are 12 tones inclusive of the octave. an individual major or minor key only uses 8 of those notes, but those notes still exist, as key changes amply demonstrate.

i

I'm not arguing that ; just that an octave is called an octave because it has 8 notes - not tones. That's why its called an octave - otherwise it's be a dectave.

This is what the OP wrote and you implied they were wrong. I was just pointing out the definition was correct.

Stephen

Glad I am not involved in this one!

It could run and run, and it's is more about words than music!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Glad I am not involved in this one!

It could run and run, and it's is more about words than music!

ATB from George

Semantics are important! It only needs to run far as the Oxford dictionary of music.

Stephen

quote:

Semantics are important!

But for me far less important than music!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Consciousmess:
...1) Songs must be 5 minutes long...

You mean you want to exclude that masterpiece, 'Simon Smith and his amazing dancing bear'?

quote:

I worked out the answer during my coffee break on my calculator watch. It is:

545435435413541574157878779715715715355715415

What a coincidence! That's the combination for the padlock on my pushbike.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

quote:

Semantics are important!

But for me far less important than music!

ATB from George

But I need to correct my own mistake - I missed out a 'Do' Dodectave. But I'm guessing anyway (or rambling.....)

Stephen

42

ish

Dodecaphonic music is a whole ball game all its own!

Its appeal as a popular medium may just have its limitation!

ATB from George

Infinity after all.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeremy Marchant:

quote:

Originally posted by Consciousmess:
...1) Songs must be 5 minutes long...

You mean you want to exclude that masterpiece, 'Simon Smith and his amazing dancing bear'?

Yes I noticed a distinct anti-Alan Price Set tone in this thread too. It is worrying that such a turn has been taken and quite frankly, as Randy Newman might say, it's outrageous, alarming, courageous, charming.

If there are so many songs then why do they always play the same ones at wedding receptions - why not play a bit of Tallis for example, like Lamentations of Jeremiah or some Dowland, but no it's Mony, Mony and YMCA.

The answer to the OP is 42, of course.

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Glad I am not involved in this one!

Them's fighting words.

Dear Adam,

;-)

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by ROTF:
The answer to the OP is 42, of course.

since the librarian will not allow all 12 notes of the chromatic scale, but only the 8 notes of an undetermined diatonic scale, then i have to agree it's 42.

Consciousmess, this guy could give you an answer to your question :

US Patent 5963957 - Bibliographic music data base with normalized musical themes

US Patent Issued on October 5, 1999

Claims


I claim:

1. An information processing system
comprising:

first memory means storing a data base
having respective bibliographic information items corresponding with respective ones of multiple musical themes;

second memory means for storing respective reference data representing respective reference sequences of reference musical components of respective ones of the musical themes;

an input for receiving an input data representative of an input sequence of input musical components;

retrieval means coupled to the input and to the first and second memory means for providing a particular bibliographic information item upon finding a match between a particular one of multiple reference data and the input data.

2. The system of claim 1, wherein:

each respective one of the input musical components comprises a respective input musical note; and

each respective one of the reference musical components comprises a respective reference musical note.

3. The system of claim 2, wherein the multiple musical themes as represented by the reference sequences are uniformly normalized with regard to one and the same predetermined scale degree.

4. The system of claim 3, wherein:

each respective one of the reference data comprises a respective ordered set of elements;

a position of a specific element and a value of the specific element in the respective ordered set are determined by a position and scale degree of a specific one of the reference musical notes in the respective reference sequence; and

the reference data are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

5. The system of claim 2, wherein:

the second memory means stores the respective reference sequences as respective series of ratios between pairs of successive scale degrees of the reference musical notes; and

the input receives the input data representative of an input sequence of ratios between pairs of successive scale degrees of the input musical notes.

6. The system of claim 5, wherein:

each respective one of the reference data comprises a respective ordered set of elements;


a position of a specific element and a value of the specific element in the respective ordered set are determined by a position and a magnitude of the ratio of scale degrees of a specific pair of the reference musical notes in the respective reference sequence; and

the reference data are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

7. The system of claim 1, wherein:

each reference musical component specifies the presence or absence of a reference beat; and

each input musical component specifies the presence or absence of an input beat.

8. The system of claim 7, wherein

each respective one of the reference musical components is represented as a digital word; and
the digital words are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

9. A memory module comprising:

first memory means storing a data base having respective bibliographic information items corresponding with respective ones of multiple musical themes;

second memory means for storing respective reference data representing respective reference sequences of reference musical components of respective ones of the musical themes and for storing pointers that link a specific one of the reference data to a specific one of the bibliographic information items.

10. The module of claim 9, wherein:

each respective one of the reference musical components comprises a respective reference musical note; and

the multiple musical themes as represented by the reference sequences are uniformly normalized with regard to one and the same predetermined scale degree.

11. The module of claim 10, wherein:

each respective one of the reference data comprises a respective ordered set of elements;

a position of a specific element and a value of the specific element in the respective ordered set are determined by a position and scale degree of a specific one of the musical notes in the respective reference sequence; and

the reference data are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

12. The module of claim 10, wherein:

each respective one of the reference data comprises a respective ordered set of elements;

a position of a specific element and a value of the specific element in the respective ordered set are determined by a position and magnitude of a ratio of scale degrees of a specific pair of the musical notes in the respective reference sequence; and

the reference data are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

13. The module of claim 9, wherein:

each reference musical component specifies the presence or absence of a reference beat;

each respective one of the reference musical components is represented as a digital word; and

the digital words are organized lexicographically in the second memory means.

14. A method of creating a music data base, the method comprising:

storing in a memory respective bibliographic information items corresponding with a respective one of multiple musical themes;

storing, lexicographically, in the memory respective reference sequences of reference musical components representative of respective ones of the musical themes; and

providing respective pointers for linking a respective one of the reference sequences to a respective one of the bibliographic information items.

15. A method of enabling interacting with an information processing system, the system comprising:

first memory means storing a data base having respective bibliographic information items corresponding with respective ones of multiple musical themes;

second memory means for storing respective reference data representing respective reference sequences of musical notes of respective ones of the musical themes, wherein

the reference sequences are uniformly normalized with regard to one and the same predetermined scale degree;

an input for receiving an input data representative of an input sequence of further musical notes; and

retrieval means coupled to the input and to the first and second memory means for providing a particular bibliographic information item upon finding a match between a particular one of multiple reference data and the input data; the interacting comprising:

normalizing the input sequence to the predetermined scale degree.

16. A method of enabling interacting with an information processing system, the system comprising:

first memory means storing a data base having respective bibliographic information items corresponding with respective ones of multiple musical themes;

second memory means for storing respective reference data representing respective reference sequences of musical notes of respective ones of the musical themes, wherein the respective reference sequences are stored as respective series of ratios between pairs of successive scale degrees of musical notes;

an input for receiving an input data representative of an input sequence of further musical notes; and

retrieval means coupled to the input and to the first and second memory means for providing a particular bibliographic information item upon finding a match between a particular one of multiple reference data and the input data; the interacting comprising:

providing the input data representative of an input sequence of ratios between pairs of successive scale degrees of the further musical notes.

Inventor

* Hoffberg, Mark B.

Assignee

* Philips Electronics North America Corporation

Application
No. 840356 filed on 04/28/1997

US Classes:
707/104.1, Application of database or data structure (e.g., distributed, multimedia, image)707/4, Query formulation, input preparation, or translation707/102Generating database or data structure (e.g., via user interface)

Field of Search
707/1, DATABASE OR FILE ACCESSING707/4, Query formulation, input preparation, or translation707/100, DATABASE SCHEMA OR DATA STRUCTURE707/102, Generating database or data structure (e.g., via user interface)84/609, Note sequence84/611Rhythm

Examiners
Primary: Amsbury, Wayne
Assistant: Lewis, Michael

Attorney, Agent or Firm

* Verdonk; Peter

US Patent References
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Issued on: 08/07/1990
Inventor: Farrand5375501, Automatic melody composer
Issued on: 12/27/1994
Inventor: Okuda5402339, Apparatus for making music database and retrieval apparatus for such database
Issued on: 03/28/1995
Inventor: Nakashima, et al.5451709, Automatic composer for composing a melody in real time
Issued on: 09/19/1995
Inventor: Minamitaka5535300, Perceptual coding of audio signals using entropy coding and/or multiple power spectra
Issued on: 07/09/1996
Inventor: Hall, II, et al.5616876, System and methods for selecting music on the basis of subjective content
Issued on: 04/01/1997
Inventor: Cluts5728960, Multi-dimensional transformation systems and display communication architecture for musical compositions
Issued on: 03/17/1998
Inventor: Sitrick5769269, Vending system
Issued on: 06/23/1998
Inventor: Peters5808223Music data processing system with concurrent reproduction of performance data and text data
Issued on: 09/15/1998
Inventor: Kurakake, et al.

Well, that's cleared that up then

Thanks, Mike, I totally understand!!!