Something for mac users to play with
Posted by: garyi on 24 September 2010
I am not allowed to post links but here is something I owuld like mac users enjoying distributed audio to try.
The application is called play, type play OSX into google and its the first link.
On the downloads page is an unstable build download this.
PLAY has been around for a while and comes from the same guy that does MAX. Personally I do not get on with MAX but hey ho.
PLAYs unstable release offers something interesting. On the fly changes to audio output ala Amarra, however the price is much more palatable. Free.
PLAY also says: Play processes all audio using 32-bit floating point precision, providing the highest possible playback quality for files sampled at all bit depths.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what this means. However I gave it a stab.
Well anyway long and short is it sounds really rather good. Song Bird in comparison is muddy.
Give it a try, its free.
The application is called play, type play OSX into google and its the first link.
On the downloads page is an unstable build download this.
PLAY has been around for a while and comes from the same guy that does MAX. Personally I do not get on with MAX but hey ho.
PLAYs unstable release offers something interesting. On the fly changes to audio output ala Amarra, however the price is much more palatable. Free.
PLAY also says: Play processes all audio using 32-bit floating point precision, providing the highest possible playback quality for files sampled at all bit depths.
I'll be honest, I have no idea what this means. However I gave it a stab.
Well anyway long and short is it sounds really rather good. Song Bird in comparison is muddy.
Give it a try, its free.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Jay
Thanks Gary
As a matter of interest, what's the rest of your system? I think you had a supernait and SBL's?
Jay
As a matter of interest, what's the rest of your system? I think you had a supernait and SBL's?
Jay
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
Thats right not had any changes in a long time now, a testament to the supernait IMO.
Being fed by a 2008/9 mac mini and a silly USB dac thing which is supposed to be 24/96 but not working well with OSX.
Being fed by a 2008/9 mac mini and a silly USB dac thing which is supposed to be 24/96 but not working well with OSX.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by pcstockton
In getting a friend dialed with playback from his mini, we gave Play a shot. Never had so many swirling bouncing balls of death.
Buggy as hell, very slow, crash-tacular.
Also, if everything is tagged perfectly it is a nightmare regarding the UI.
He had MUCH better results with Fluke and iTunes to play FLACs.
Also, in my experience with it, Songbird was a bit better but not much.
-Patrick
Buggy as hell, very slow, crash-tacular.
Also, if everything is tagged perfectly it is a nightmare regarding the UI.
He had MUCH better results with Fluke and iTunes to play FLACs.
Also, in my experience with it, Songbird was a bit better but not much.
-Patrick
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
Patrick do you own a mac? (I cannot remember if you plumbed for one yet)
I have not really had much time for PLAY in the past the interface is not up to much it has to be said.
But all things being equal this app pisses all over songbird. I am using the latest release which is in alpha. have no idea what the last versions played like.
Its been rock solid and is changing output at core audio level which I would expect to get crashy!
I have not really had much time for PLAY in the past the interface is not up to much it has to be said.
But all things being equal this app pisses all over songbird. I am using the latest release which is in alpha. have no idea what the last versions played like.
Its been rock solid and is changing output at core audio level which I would expect to get crashy!
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by pcstockton
I have a old macbook i NEVER use.
But I will check out the new version to see if it works these days.
I have a few friends with Macs and I like helping them.
-Patrick
But I will check out the new version to see if it works these days.
I have a few friends with Macs and I like helping them.
-Patrick
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
You are so kind.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
I like a freebie, but Pure Music does all of this and sounds excellent to me, for seventy quid.
Joe
Joe
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
OK. Um, this sounds excellent and does not cost 70 quid.
Tough crowd.
Tough crowd.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by garyi:
OK. Um, this sounds excellent and does not cost 70 quid.
Tough crowd.
Have you compared them? This (1.63) doesn't crash and the interface seems fine.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
No. I have no compared them. However you are in a better position than I in that you have pure music. So on the basis the other is free perhaps you would be so kind to compare?
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by garyi:
No. I have no compared them. However you are in a better position than I in that you have pure music. So on the basis the other is free perhaps you would be so kind to compare?
OK fine I will have a go with it this week. But PM has a free trial so why not give that a go at the same time.
Joe
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
I don't know, I just feel like I have made a suggestion for a free bit of software and asking for what others have found and instead I am being told to spend 70 quid.
And of course as the 70 quid has been spent your thoughts will be coloured.
And of course as the 70 quid has been spent your thoughts will be coloured.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
quote:Originally posted by garyi:
I don't know, I just feel like I have made a suggestion for a free bit of software and asking for what others have found and instead I am being told to spend 70 quid.
And of course as the 70 quid has been spent your thoughts will be coloured.
Which part of 'FREE trial' costs £70? It does amuse me how software is expected to be free no matter how much IP goes in.
I couldn't care about the cost - I've used it for long enough before any free solutions (if that is good enough) saw daylight. We think nothing of paying for boxes but other things that can have significant sonic effects have to be free. Funny old world.
Seventy quid doesn't buy enough loyalty for my thoughts to be 'coloured' but I have got used to it doing what it says without crashing, if that has some value.
Joe
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by garyi
Joe, are you at the wine?
Try the software. Its free. Patrick suggested that some time ago it had crashed for him, (I did not say it had crashed for me). This does not give you or anyone else a real world comparison of this software to pure music.
Its free, try it. Tell me what you think. I am not going to spend 70 quid on pure music, the interface is so terrible I couldn't bring myself to do it.
end.
Try the software. Its free. Patrick suggested that some time ago it had crashed for him, (I did not say it had crashed for me). This does not give you or anyone else a real world comparison of this software to pure music.
Its free, try it. Tell me what you think. I am not going to spend 70 quid on pure music, the interface is so terrible I couldn't bring myself to do it.
end.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
You could get an idea of what is on offer from the free trial.....I don't get your reluctance. There's nothing wrong with the interface it also has memory play which should take all the tiresome ALAC / WAV verbal wanking out of it.
I shall be trying PLAY, I've been following it's development on the CA forum but those guys still find it a bit flaky. But free is free.
Joe
I shall be trying PLAY, I've been following it's development on the CA forum but those guys still find it a bit flaky. But free is free.
Joe
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by JonR
Looks useful. Just noticed this in the blurb:-
quote:Never touch your volume control again! Play supports replay gain, allowing files to play at a constant volume despite inherent differences in their loudness.
Posted on: 24 September 2010 by pcstockton
Replay gain is nice when comparing SQ of two different versions of the same CD. But I wouldn't use it all the time. You want the levels to be what the artist and engineer intended right?
And there are a few different kinds of replay gain tags. One makes every song on a given album the same loudness. One makes every song in a playlist the same.
And there are a few different kinds of replay gain tags. One makes every song on a given album the same loudness. One makes every song in a playlist the same.
Posted on: 25 September 2010 by garyi
I assumed that replay gain removes the bit perfecty goodness?
Posted on: 25 September 2010 by james n
Yep
Posted on: 25 September 2010 by jlarsson
If they do it correctly it will only add a small amount of noise, no distortion.
The floating point routines they are using will introduce much larger errors (some of which will be distortion). And even worse if they use the rounding errors the floating point math introduce as replacement for real dither in the "replay gain" function (not as uncommon as you would like it to be).
32-bit float normally use 24-bit precision. So there are no benefits as 24-bit fixed already have larger dynamic range than physically possible with analog electronics. If you are doing advanced DSP then it is much easier for the programmer to use floats, which is the reason it is popular. The professional ProTools system used in studios use 24-bit fixed for storage, 48-bit fixed for DSP and 56-bits fixed in the mix summing algorithm (the prosumer version use 32-bit floats though).
The floating point routines they are using will introduce much larger errors (some of which will be distortion). And even worse if they use the rounding errors the floating point math introduce as replacement for real dither in the "replay gain" function (not as uncommon as you would like it to be).
32-bit float normally use 24-bit precision. So there are no benefits as 24-bit fixed already have larger dynamic range than physically possible with analog electronics. If you are doing advanced DSP then it is much easier for the programmer to use floats, which is the reason it is popular. The professional ProTools system used in studios use 24-bit fixed for storage, 48-bit fixed for DSP and 56-bits fixed in the mix summing algorithm (the prosumer version use 32-bit floats though).
quote:Originally posted by garyi:
I assumed that replay gain removes the bit perfecty goodness
Posted on: 25 September 2010 by garyi
Could this in anyway impact on gain?
I am always open to the fact that something is simply louder which in many cases equates in the mind as better.
I am always open to the fact that something is simply louder which in many cases equates in the mind as better.
Posted on: 29 September 2010 by Joe Bibb
I'd add to Gary's recommendation - Play is well worth a look if you are using iTunes on a Mac. Nice interface, has hung a couple of times but easily cleared with a re-start. Nothing in it between Amarra (Mini) and Play, so the freebie represents a bargain.
I do however prefer Pure Music in Hog Mode sonically, the interface is bit 'pikey' as James memorably described it, but get it set up right and it sounds really good. All compared via Firewire, same DAC.
Joe
I do however prefer Pure Music in Hog Mode sonically, the interface is bit 'pikey' as James memorably described it, but get it set up right and it sounds really good. All compared via Firewire, same DAC.
Joe
Posted on: 29 September 2010 by js
Wish I had read this a few hours ago. Would have added to the mix. 