Is that the end of F1 then??
Posted by: Hawk on 19 June 2005
What a farce... I feel sorry for all those who have shelled out for their granstand seat...
So where does it go from here? and whos head should roll??
Hawk
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by JonR
Only saw a clip of the start on the news just now but heard on the radio beforehand about the tyre-safety issue behind it all.
It does seem an absolutely farce - just six cars in the race? Ridiculous!!
Cheers,
Jon
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by HTK
It's the end for Michelen and the USA race. Which is probably what Bernie wanted. So a result for him and bitter disgust for the rest of us.
Since the people running the sport right at the top allowed this to happen, it's them who should go. And the sooner the better. ITV and the FIA have prety much killed it stone dead for me. I can now think of plenty of things I'd rather be doing on a Sunday afternoon - including mowing the lawn.
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Hawk
I cut the grass yesterday Harry, Stupidly thinking the race might hold at least some entertainment value!
Ive never been what you would call F1's number one fan, but working for one of the companies on the grid meant that it did hold some interest for me.
How 'grown ups' can fuck up a multimillion pound event as badly as this is beyond me..
Still on the plus side ill just have to give some vinyl a spin instead..
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by manicatel
I used to love it. Nowadays,(not just this race,ha-ha) I wouldn't miss it in the slightest.
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by HTK
I've been pretty much a life long fan. And unlike other passtimes and sports that now bore me, I've never been able to get F1 out of my system. But we really can't have the broadcasters and now the FIA taking the piss out of us. We're mugs to keep watching IMO. I'll read about it from now on - the quality is higher anyway.
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
What a farce... I feel sorry for all those who have shelled out for their granstand seat...
And, as Brundle said, shelled out for their plane tickets, hotel rooms, taxis, meals... Even if there is a refund (and I don't think there will be) they won't be reinbursed for that.
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Jim Lawson
quote:
It's the end for Michelen and the USA race. Which is probably what Bernie wanted. So a result for him and bitter disgust for the rest of us.
What a load of shit you spew. Your first two points are unsubstantiated crap. "bitter disgust". oh go on you silly git. Grandstand elsewhere. how dare you claim to speak for "the rest of us".
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Lawson:
What a load of shit you spew. Your first two points are unsubstantiated crap. "bitter disgust". oh go on you silly git. Grandstand elsewhere. how dare you claim to speak for "the rest of us".
Ahhh. A breath of the "old forum". Like ammonium smelling salts...
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Earwicker
I found it all rather depressing. A few years ago I'd never miss a race - now, with all these daft new rules, I find that sitting through an entire race tests my endurance every bit as much as it does the drivers'.
As for yesterday's farcial goings on, one of two things should have happened: put the bloody chicane in, or race on the Michellins and hang the consequences! These cars today will withstand massive impacts and impacts are about the only thing that keeps the sport interesting!
EW
Posted on: 19 June 2005 by Steve Toy
A bit cynical I think.
Motorsport entertainment shouldn't be about watching collisions that were caused in the name of safety/fear of litigation.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by John Sheridan
quote:
It's the end for Michelen and the USA race. Which is probably what Bernie wanted.
Bernie may possibly want a one tyre series (I can't recall him commenting either way) but you'd have to be insane to think he wants to lose the US market.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by HTK
I see that Steve didn't make the mistake of using 'entertainment', 'motorsport' and 'F1' in the same sentence.
The FIA have been pushing for a single tyre supplier for next year or the year after. The honeymoon with the USA, or at least Indy has also long come to an end, the poison dwarf publicly moaning at the promoter this week. When asked on the grid by Brundle if this was the end of the USA GP and Michelin, the answer was ‘yes and yes’. How very convenient for him.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Basil
Let's look at what actually happened, rather than resort to pointless "knee jerk reactions".
Michelin screwed up big time, so all the Michelin teams tried to get the race abandoned so as not to lose out to the Bridgestone teams.
Quite rightly, this tactic failed.
All the FIA did was refuse to be blackmailed by the Michelin teams.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by Basil:
All the FIA did was refuse to be blackmailed by the Michelin teams.
I'm beginning to see it this way too. Michelin screwed up - why should the whole shebang be changed around at the last minute just to minimise the consequences of their error? I do feel sorry for the fans that bought tickets though and think perhaps Michelin should be liable to some extent.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Nime
I'll readily admit to never having been much of an F1 fan. The cars look exactly the same whether they're accelerating, slowing or cornering at 7G. One long identi-kit procession after another until something breaks.
If I want to watch Scalextric on TV I'll just buy a Scalexctric set and set up a webcam.
Nime
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by HTK
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
quote:
Originally posted by Basil:
All the FIA did was refuse to be blackmailed by the Michelin teams.
I'm beginning to see it this way too. Michelin screwed up - why should the whole shebang be changed around at the last minute just to minimise the consequences of their error? I do feel sorry for the fans that bought tickets though and think perhaps Michelin should be liable to some extent.
No doubt at all that the blame lies with Michelin. And no they shouldn't expect a rule or circut change just to get them out of the poo. There must have been a number of options open for all concerned - what's wrong, for example, with taking the banking in 5th? Bridgestone runners would have been unaffected (assuming they had the concentration and skill to pass slower cars at that point on the circut). You can bet that any driver with knackered tyres later in the race would have backed off there in any case. I'm not saying that WAS the solution - it just seems that when it comes to public pissing contests only the worst possible result is acceptable in F1. there's no doubt that Michelin will be beaten with sticks from all directions - and would have been if 18 cars had raced - why rub it in for everyone else?
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by MichaelC
I am surprised that anyone remained interested in F1 even before yesterday's farce.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Hawk
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:
I'm beginning to see it this way too. Michelin screwed up - why should the whole shebang be changed around at the last minute just to minimise the consequences of their error? I do feel sorry for the fans that bought tickets though and think perhaps Michelin should be liable to some extent.
I think its clear that Michelin screwed up and are the root cause of the problem, and i agree that the whole shebang shouldnt have been changed for the benefit of Michelin, but i do think the F1 circus had a duty to the thousands of paying customers that had filled the grandstands. More should have been done to facilitate a race of sorts on the day. There would have been plenty of time afterwards to work out a suitable penalty for michelin and the teams. If its to be believed the teams would have been happy (in context!!!) to run on a no points basis...
I wonder what will happen next weekend?
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Nigel Cavendish
quote:
Originally posted by HTK:
I see that Steve didn't make the mistake of using 'entertainment', 'motorsport' and 'F1' in the same sentence.
The FIA have been pushing for a single tyre supplier for next year or the year after. The honeymoon with the USA, or at least Indy has also long come to an end, the poison dwarf publicly moaning at the promoter this week. When asked on the grid by Brundle if this was the end of the USA GP and Michelin, the answer was ‘yes and yes’. How very convenient for him.
Still not sure why you think Bernie would want to lose such a potentially lucrative market as the USA? Not sure why, if indeed he does want a single tyre rule (and that is a matter for the FIA) why he would be bothererd if it were Michelin or anyone else?
quote:
You can bet that any driver with knackered tyres later in the race would have backed off there in any case.
The problem was not tyre wear in the usual sense of tread degradation; it was that the sidewalls would fail unpredictably.
The race should have been cancelled and rescheduled - after all the Brickyard is unused for most of the year.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Berlin Fritz
You should take it up yourself Cavvers me old hardcore merchant, although naturally you wouldn't be the first Nigel, innit.
Fritz Von The best bit is yer call it sport
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by HTK
The sidewalls had a high probability of failure if the cars went through the turn in question flat out. Michelin runners might possibly have taken that turn more slowly in the interests of keeping destructive forces off the side walls, and even if the tyres were good to race flat out, degredation that one would normally have expected during the course of the race would probably have caused most/all runners to take it easy at that point on the circut. In theory. Possibly. etc...
I can't quote the chapter and verse, but a glance back through something like Auotorsport will show numerous reports of the FIA wanting to switch to a single tyre formula - with Bridgestone favoured by B.E. (why is anybody's guess but I suppose there's personal gain in there somewhere). I agree that losing the USA appears insane from a commercial viewpoint - but what other possible motive can there be? F1's a minority interest in the States and lots of other more commercially lucrative venues are coming through? Or it could be that Indy is now out of favour. Nice to be able to blame it all on one tyre cmpany - and how daft of them to have stuck their chin out. Some people have blamed the resurfacing work done at the track - but that didn't seem to give Bridgestone any problems.
Cancelling the race would have peanalised Bridgestone for getting it right.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Berlin Fritz
Did the fans who I know pay extraordinarily high ticket prices, get their money back, if not why not ?
Fritz Von I'd like to see them pull that stunt in Russia:
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by HTK
Ha! You must be joking.
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Hawk
quote:
Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Did the fans who I know pay extraordinarily high ticket prices, get their money back, if not why not ?
Fritz Von I'd like to see them pull that stunt in Russia:
I wonder if any customs officers went to the race!?
Hawk von wheres my rubber gloves
Posted on: 20 June 2005 by Hawk
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
quote:
Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
Did the fans who I know pay extraordinarily high ticket prices, get their money back, if not why not ?
Fritz Von I'd like to see them pull that stunt in Russia:
I wonder if any customs officers went to the race!?
Hawk von where are my rubber gloves
