Is that the end of F1 then??

quote:

Originally posted by Deane F:
Right, so if the Padded Cell committee was running Formula One we would have:

Slick tyres (one make, one tyre for everybody)

No electronics

Wider tracks (and wider corners with no apex to help overtaking?)

Top drivers would be penalised for winning more than two races in a row because it detracts from the spectators' enjoyment if one driver and car combination is better than the others.

The points spread would be evened out before the last race of the season, or hey, what the hell, before *every* race so that the spectators enjoy themselves more.

Dearry me! Hot under the collar are we? Let me clarify, it is boring because there is no challenge once qualifying and the start of the race has gone. Just one leading car circulating by itself from start to finish! Others cannot keep up when Ferrari was dominating! Yawn Excitement?

No, I'm not hot under the collar wellyspyder. What gives you that impression?

Threads on how boring people find F1 have been done to death here. Seems that people think they have a perfect right to a competition that they find exciting. The FIA should do this and that because there isn't any excitement anymore.

Last year there was moaning about Schumacher winning all the races.

This year there is moaning about Alonso winning all the races.

your point? Still boring to watch.

Certainly boring to watch on telly for the most part. Very poor commentary and about half the time, poor TV direction. It’s bland and processed. Contrast this with attending a GP or practice session. Get as near to the track as you can, preferably somewhere on the circumference of a corner. You’ll never think it’s boring again. These drivers are super human and totally bonkers – worth every penny. And that’s WITH the aids. On telly it looks too easy.

If electronic aids were banned, they would still be used. Senna studied Schumaker’s Benneton from the track side two weeks before he died. He was convinced that the car was electronically assisted – and I’m willing to bet that most of the others were at it too. It’s not about obeying the rules, it’s about not getting caught. BAR fell foul this year, and there were probably sighs of relief up and down the pit lane as the covers went on and teams of engineers started retro designing on the hoof. Probably better to keep something legal that the teams would try to implement anyway. But grooved tyres? Awwww come on…!

Was there ever a time when one or two dominant teams didn’t spend most of the season hogging the podium? Well, off the top of my head, how about last year and this year?

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
John. Can I loop it back a few posts?

The court case was out to prove negligence, the column failing in itself is not proof of negligence. If you think back to the incident his car appeared to suddenly snap right and then continue straight on to impact - I read somewhere a while back that the telemetry showed quite heavy braking in the few seconds that took so I don't believe he was airborn at any particular time. If you google for the in-car footage you'll see that the force on the steering wheel does suddenly disappear in the corner as senna's hands suddenly spin left while the car carries on straight ahead. I haven't read anything to confirm whether that shows a broken steering column or just sudden loss of front grip for another reason.
The actual cause of death is not a mystery though as he hit the wall at just the right angle to force a piece of his snapped suspension/steering through his helmet.

Yep. I've seen the footage. I should have said that I thought the cause of the accident remained a mystery. The cause of death was sadly clear. Now that you mention it I do remember reading that he lost control at about 190mph and was hard on the brakes and slowing when he hit (at about 150-60 if I remember?). Anyway, thanks for the reply - perhaps we can move onto brighter discussions...

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
perhaps we can move onto brighter discussions...

yes, perhaps for Deane we should discuss the intricacies of refuelling or the finer points of wing angle adjustments.

I'm afraid I simply do not see the relevance of an accident 11 years ago, and today's question ? Although not too into this 'thing' that you guys enjoy and I can only equate it with say taking Graham Hills Cessna's engine to bits and improving it after the event for some reason ? F1 will survive in the third world where the new serious money is to be found & exploited by the top players (no pun intended).

It's a seriously elitest activity, that unlike Polo brings in lots of business of the short-term kind, and in my opinion in reality helps very few in the real world, even on an enjoyment level, innit.

Fritz Von Put that in yer pipes and smoke it and concentrate more on space shuttle probs for instance that benefit us all in the long haul

quote:

Originally posted by John Sheridan:

yes, perhaps for Deane we should discuss the intricacies of refuelling or the finer points of wing angle adjustments.

If you find F1 boring don't watch it.

If you find posting about how boring you find F1 these days on internet forums to be more exciting then that's a real positive isn't it?

The fundamental problem is the difficulty of overtaking, caused by the adverse effect on downforce from following another car.

Martin Brundall recently suggested that the cars should have maximum mechanical grip (non-grooved tyres and perhaps changes during the race), and using ground effect instead of wings to give downforce. This would mean that a car wouldn't be disadvantaged if it's following close to another.

How could you argue against it?

Of course, the designers would need to avoid the "Senna issue" (loss of ground effect when riding bumps), but the cars do seem a lot more controlled over bumps than they used to be.

cheers, Martin

F1 went through a ground effect phase before it was <sigh> ruled out if I recall correctly. If they had been given the time to get it right it would be very effective. Weren't the (ground effect) skirts a big problem though?

Coo - just read the thread from the start - and it's page 5 before the air turbulence is raised as the one issue that destroys overtaking. That needs sorting IMHO. Not sure where the sponsors' names are going to go instead though if the rear wings get reduced in size.

Going back a few pages, I also take issue with the comment that no one make racing series has ever been successful - depends what you count as success but Caterham has half a dozen racing series in the UK alone (and several overseas) that are very successful in terms of number of people taking part year on year, if not TV coverage / numbers of spectators.

Anyone else want to get rid of James Allen? He is just so awful...

quote:

Originally posted by living in lancs

Anyone else want to get rid of James Allen?

Yes - me! I would like to get rid of James Allen. I don't see why Brundell has to pay second fiddle to him either. Totally sympathise with the Sniff Petrol guy and would buy a t-shirt if I could.

Me too! The bloke is just clueless and irritating. And he refuses to commentate on what we’re looking at. Eighteen drivers taking it in turn to do their ‘death or glory’ one lap quali, and this bloke’s twittering on about some inconsequential bit of gossip or what he had for breakfast.

He brings no sense of appreciation to what’s going on in the car or on the track. Big on the sweeping statements and drama (although he’s usually got hold of the wrong end of the stick), and with too much of a tendency to lapse into me me me mode.

If he didn’t persist in interrupting Martin Brundle all the time, he might have something useful to say –i.e. nothing.

Murray was a tough act to follow. But James isn’t overshadowed by his predecessor – he’s just a lousy commentator period. Just listen to the knowledge, appreciation and passion of anybody on the BBC commentating on a greyhound/bath tub/banger/boat race and weep – as I often do. In fact the whole ITV machine's a bit naff isn't it? They treat it like footie.

Cheers

I wonder whats instore for Silverstone this weekend? Will Mr Button give the home crowd anything to cheer about? Sources tell me the car is competitive enough for a podium (and legal.. lol) and he was 3rd fastest in first practice today..

Hawk

Of course I'll be delighted if he makes the podium but above all, I just want to see a good race.

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
but above all, I just want to see a good race.

IIRC, last year's race had far more overtaking than an average GP.

Either the TV director managed to actually capture & show action that other contries fail to, or the track is almost uniqely suited to F1 overtaking.

Of course, Barmy Bernie tried to can the Silverstone race last year.

cheers, Martin

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
Of course I'll be delighted if he makes the podium but above all, I just want to see a good race.

Me too!

quote:

Originally posted by wellyspyder:

quote:

Originally posted by HTK:
Of course I'll be delighted if he makes the podium but above all, I just want to see a good race.

Me too!

Well he is off to a good start, 2nd on the grid for tomorrow and with a good amount of fuel! Fingers crossed..

Hawk

It looked very easy. Smooth style coupled with the old problem that the telly just doesn't portray it with much excitement. Usual stupid commentry - Quick Nick hanging it out for all it was worth whilst James mumbeled on about dancing at the ball last night.

"So Martin, he's 5-1 down against his team mate on qualifing this season. How do you think he feels about that?" Who fucking cares! WATCH HIS LAP James and tell us, if you can, about how the car is set up and how he's driving it. I'm not interested in what he had for breakfast or which Supermodel he's dating - I want to know about HIS DRIVING.

quote:

and with a good amount of fuel!

You know this how?

Howard

James Allen has got to go. Brundle's a diamond but that Allen guy? Useless. Someone needs to Stop The C...

quote:

Originally posted by BigH47:

quote:

and with a good amount of fuel!

You know this how?

Howard

...because of who i work for

OK

Howard

Button's final qualifying time was pretty much the same as his time in the first practice on Friday, and i think his chances of a podium today are as good as they have ever been this year. I dont think a win is realistic, and a podium isn't a given either, he will need luck on his side and more importantly he will need to keep his head under the pressure of the extra media hype today!

Hawk