Thorens TD165/SME vs CDX...
Posted by: Alco on 21 June 2003
Hi guys,
Tonight I visited an audio-friend, to listen to his (AudioNote) HiFi-system, in his new house, which happened to be about a 5 minute walk from my place.
After a few minutes of listening I noticed that his system didn't include his old Thoren TT anymore.
He still had it lying in some closet, but he didn't used it lately, bacause of the hassle and because his CD-player/DAC combo is already sounding great as it is.
We started talking about TT's and vinyl and he said to me:"Why don't you try my old Thorens in your Naim system for a while ?" Just for fun, to listen to some of my old records and see how it compares with my CDX.
Well, so we did. We walked back to my appartement. Plunked it on top my Quadraspire Q4, hooked it up to my Nait-2, adjust things till the TT was completely level, and then finally.... it was all settled and ready to roll...
I want(ed) to keep this story short, but I can't express my findings in a few words.
I didn't expect much of it, at least not in comparison to my CDX.
But,... after a few tracks from the few vinyl albums I've got left, I didn't know wether to laugh or to cry...
Damn,.... I was quite amazed!
Especially when listening to my (old, never cleaned!) Ennio Morricone 'OST "Once upon a time in America" LP, I found it hard to believe that an more than 25year old TT, with an SME arm not only rivaled my Naim CDX, but I even preferred the music coming out from the ancient Thorens.
It's a Thorens TD165 with a S-shaped Thorens arm and an AudioNote MM cartridge.
The TT sounded more natural, easier, less hard/tyring than the CDX. More involving.
Now, I know thse are the common words to discribe the sound of good vinyl playback, but I didn't expect it to come from an old cheap deck like this Thorens/SME.
If this Thorens already sounds that good, I hardly dare to ask for more...
Well,... this sunday I'm gonna enjoy what's left of my old vinyl collection!
See y'all,
regards,
Alco
Tonight I visited an audio-friend, to listen to his (AudioNote) HiFi-system, in his new house, which happened to be about a 5 minute walk from my place.
After a few minutes of listening I noticed that his system didn't include his old Thoren TT anymore.
He still had it lying in some closet, but he didn't used it lately, bacause of the hassle and because his CD-player/DAC combo is already sounding great as it is.
We started talking about TT's and vinyl and he said to me:"Why don't you try my old Thorens in your Naim system for a while ?" Just for fun, to listen to some of my old records and see how it compares with my CDX.
Well, so we did. We walked back to my appartement. Plunked it on top my Quadraspire Q4, hooked it up to my Nait-2, adjust things till the TT was completely level, and then finally.... it was all settled and ready to roll...
I want(ed) to keep this story short, but I can't express my findings in a few words.
I didn't expect much of it, at least not in comparison to my CDX.
But,... after a few tracks from the few vinyl albums I've got left, I didn't know wether to laugh or to cry...
Damn,.... I was quite amazed!
Especially when listening to my (old, never cleaned!) Ennio Morricone 'OST "Once upon a time in America" LP, I found it hard to believe that an more than 25year old TT, with an SME arm not only rivaled my Naim CDX, but I even preferred the music coming out from the ancient Thorens.
It's a Thorens TD165 with a S-shaped Thorens arm and an AudioNote MM cartridge.
The TT sounded more natural, easier, less hard/tyring than the CDX. More involving.
Now, I know thse are the common words to discribe the sound of good vinyl playback, but I didn't expect it to come from an old cheap deck like this Thorens/SME.
If this Thorens already sounds that good, I hardly dare to ask for more...
Well,... this sunday I'm gonna enjoy what's left of my old vinyl collection!
See y'all,
regards,
Alco
Alco,
Lifes a bitch sometimes, isn't it! If you get the chance, you should play the same album on CD and vinyl and then see what you think.
I prefer certain types on music on one format etc, but this is an over simplification as the quality of the recording always is a factor.
Maybe you can persuade your friend to allow you to 'care' for his Thorens for a while
Colin
Lifes a bitch sometimes, isn't it! If you get the chance, you should play the same album on CD and vinyl and then see what you think.
I prefer certain types on music on one format etc, but this is an over simplification as the quality of the recording always is a factor.
Maybe you can persuade your friend to allow you to 'care' for his Thorens for a while
Colin
Hi Colin,
Luckily, from my left-over humble 20 LP's collection I have 2 vinyl albums that I've also got on CD. I did the comparison.
First one was Sade - "Love is stronger than pride" There was a slight difference but more a difference than an improvement.
Then came the OST album "Once upon a time in America" by Ennio Morricone. Now that was something else.
On the Thorens the music just flowed with more ease, instruments sounded slightly more natural.
The whole track was much more involving.
Anyway, if this humble Thorens/SME TT already sounds this good in my system, it does make me curious wat recent conteders are able to!
regards,
Alco
Luckily, from my left-over humble 20 LP's collection I have 2 vinyl albums that I've also got on CD. I did the comparison.
First one was Sade - "Love is stronger than pride" There was a slight difference but more a difference than an improvement.
Then came the OST album "Once upon a time in America" by Ennio Morricone. Now that was something else.
On the Thorens the music just flowed with more ease, instruments sounded slightly more natural.
The whole track was much more involving.
Anyway, if this humble Thorens/SME TT already sounds this good in my system, it does make me curious wat recent conteders are able to!
regards,
Alco
Alco
All true but not all good..
Just try getting Neko Case on vinyl
We gotta live in the now (not necessarily a good thing). Starting a vinyl hunt in the year 2003 is...hard work
redeye
All true but not all good..
Just try getting Neko Case on vinyl
We gotta live in the now (not necessarily a good thing). Starting a vinyl hunt in the year 2003 is...hard work
redeye
quote:
We gotta live in the now (not necessarily a good thing). Starting a vinyl hunt in the year 2003 is...hard work
Yeah, Ik know Redeye... unfortunately, you're right....
That's óne of the main reasons why I still haven't got a TT yet.
for example:
In July there are 3 LP/CD-fairs in my town. (which is VERY rarely organized here anyway)
But why did they plan 'em all three on a wednesday ?!?!
It's the only days in July that I can't get a day off from work. I'll have to work to 4:30 p.m. and the s/h LP/CD fair is closed at 5.00 p.m.Damn, that kinda pisses me of
Why don't they just organise it on a Saturday!
On the other hand, IF I want to start collecting vinyl again.... what's the rush, I'm not in a hurry
btw, just made a piccy of the Thorens/SME in my system:
regards,
Alco
quote:
Welcome to the club of vinyl lovers, Alco! Another convert. Good move.
Thanx Willem, but... I hope I've written it clear, when opening this topic... I only borrowed the Thorens/SME TT from this friend, to have a little sniff of that analog feeling again. So, I still don't have a TT, and I'm not sure if I will buy one.
There are very few analog specialist stores in my area, so demoing some TT's will be pretty tuff, and I also need/want to trade in the 72/180 for a TT, so...
But, I must confess I was happily surprised what this old TD165/SME could achive in my system.
it does make me curious what other serious analog contenders are able to.
regards,
Alo
Redeye,
Neko Case is on vinyl. The only LP I've ever mishandled was my copy of her "Canadian Amp". Dropped it against a brick wall and scratched the smeg out of side B.
Still, I agree with what you're getting at.
LPs invariably rule, but throwing a bunch of money at it in 2003 is tough work. New vinyl is particularly expensive.
I've given up on new LPs a long time ago and my wallet is so much happier.
Alco,
I have a number of Sades on both LP and CD. The LPs are "flowier", but not by much. The CDs give you the hi-fi fireworks and convenience.
This is with P3 vs. CDX, mind.
Neko Case is on vinyl. The only LP I've ever mishandled was my copy of her "Canadian Amp". Dropped it against a brick wall and scratched the smeg out of side B.
Still, I agree with what you're getting at.
LPs invariably rule, but throwing a bunch of money at it in 2003 is tough work. New vinyl is particularly expensive.
I've given up on new LPs a long time ago and my wallet is so much happier.
Alco,
I have a number of Sades on both LP and CD. The LPs are "flowier", but not by much. The CDs give you the hi-fi fireworks and convenience.
This is with P3 vs. CDX, mind.
quote:
Yeah, I know, you only just borrowed it... But you haven't given it back yet, have you!
Ehhm...no, you've got a point there Willem
quote:
You're hooked mate!
Yikes,... you think so...?
...That explaines why I wanted to play 'I wanna new drug' from my Huey Lewis & the News vinyl album again
Well, I do confess guilty of checking out some TT manufacterer sites while at the office today.
We'll see,... time will tell
regards,
Alco
quote:
BTW: Nobody says that you have to play really old and boring music on a TT.
That's absolutely true Willem, and anyway.... good music is timeless music,imho!
on the other hand, I do have to be realistic that about 90% of the vinyl available will be s/h and therefor pre-90's recordings.
But, I can't wait to hear Alison Krauss, Coldplay, Ryan Adams, Steve Earle,etc, on brandnew vinyl, on a serious deck
quote:
New vinyl is particularly expensive.
I've given up on new LPs a long time ago and my wallet is so much happier
Mike,
I must admit to being a bit baffled by this (an assertion which others have also made here recently). Given that you live in North America and listen to indie rock/pop, you should really be finding vinyl cheaper overall.
Curious about your Neko Case example, I just looked at prices for her latest New Pornographers album at Insound: $10.99 for the LP, $13.99 for the CD. This is very typical; although there are exceptions, LP prices are less than CD prices more often than not.
I recently posted on another thread a variety of links to labels where new LPs are very cheap indeed ($8-10), and usually well below CD prices. There are many such places.
I can't speak for every genre and every location, but if you live in North America and you buy the indie rock that a lot of us do here, it's just false to say that LPs cost more (unless, that is, there are some VERY cheap CD-only retailers that I haven't found
)Cheers,
Eric
Eric,
If the record's not pressed in Canada (which is to say a lot of them), it's subject to to an import duty and priced accordingly.
I've found that a new release on CD costing 12-16 bucks tends to cost between 20-40, depending on how many sides there are. I end up wanting the ones that cost 40 bucks heheh.
I've noticed that new vinyl pressed in Canada tends to be much cheaper- Say, 14 bucks for the aforementioned Neko Case. Surprisingly, the new Herbaliser was pressed in Montreal and was only 15.
A friend from the UK was recently complaining that vinyl in the UK is pretty pricey, even though almost all of it is pressed there. Then again, he told me that Brixton is full of nothing but criminals
I'm sorta assuming new LPs are pretty expensive no matter where you are. Anyone?
Maybe indie releases are cheaper because there's fewer fingers in the pie?
If the record's not pressed in Canada (which is to say a lot of them), it's subject to to an import duty and priced accordingly.
I've found that a new release on CD costing 12-16 bucks tends to cost between 20-40, depending on how many sides there are. I end up wanting the ones that cost 40 bucks heheh.
I've noticed that new vinyl pressed in Canada tends to be much cheaper- Say, 14 bucks for the aforementioned Neko Case. Surprisingly, the new Herbaliser was pressed in Montreal and was only 15.
A friend from the UK was recently complaining that vinyl in the UK is pretty pricey, even though almost all of it is pressed there. Then again, he told me that Brixton is full of nothing but criminals
I'm sorta assuming new LPs are pretty expensive no matter where you are. Anyone?
Maybe indie releases are cheaper because there's fewer fingers in the pie?
I found that here in Holland, in 9 out of 10 cases, vinyl is more expensive than CD.
Most of my music I order by www.nlstore.nl
I can order CD's and also LP's there, mostly delivered within a week.
Sometime the difference is only a few Euro's/bucks, but I've also found recent LP's which were almost twice as much as the same title on CD!
Examples:
Luka Bloom - "Amsterdam" CD - 18,13 Euro, on vinyl 26,24
Eagles - "Hell freezes over" bought new on CD for only 9,- Euro. On vinyl it's 22,54 Euro
On the other hand, Alison Krauss' - "new favorite" cost about 22,- Euro on CD, and only 0,54 Eurocent more on 180gr vinyl
regards,
Alco
Most of my music I order by www.nlstore.nl
I can order CD's and also LP's there, mostly delivered within a week.
Sometime the difference is only a few Euro's/bucks, but I've also found recent LP's which were almost twice as much as the same title on CD!
Examples:
Luka Bloom - "Amsterdam" CD - 18,13 Euro, on vinyl 26,24
Eagles - "Hell freezes over" bought new on CD for only 9,- Euro. On vinyl it's 22,54 Euro
On the other hand, Alison Krauss' - "new favorite" cost about 22,- Euro on CD, and only 0,54 Eurocent more on 180gr vinyl
regards,
Alco