Mercedes W124

Rico,

This link might be useful for starters:
W124 buyers guide

Having experienced both and having owned an E34, I'd say the BM is for you if you want a sportier drive. The Merc is probably going to last longer and the sixes seem to take the miles/KMs better than the Bimmer units do over time. When have you ever heard a rattly Merc six? Hardly ever I'd say whereas it’s quite common on older BM sixes.

Both are solid motors, Merc probably more so. If you go for the Merc, be prepared to for a large helm - they liked fitting gigantic steering wheels at the time!

Cheers,

Steve

Oh, and whilst I remember, Pistonheads is another very useful resource for information.

Steve

A reasonably looked after 124 should last for ever. My wife rund a 123 and it goes on and on, not costing much and usually flying through the MOT. Solid and long lasting.

I run an E39 because the ride/handling balance is outstanding. The Merc feels like a lump next to it, but it's got other virtues.

Rico

The W124 is in my view the best built E class Mercedes ever built. The Frog Eyed version and the current E class are not built to the same hewn from solid principles.

I bought an oldish W124 a while back to use in Saudi Arabia as I spend quite a bit of time there. I ran an E34 in the UK for 8 odd years and changed to an E39 530 diesel touring a couple of years ago.

The Beemers are just different. Much more fun to drive but the W124 always comads respect. Its a bit more like steering a boat with that huge wheel.

Just a few things to watch on the Merc. Be sure to get the Auto box with the anti rollback otherwise you may get caught out with that crazy fly off handbrake. Some of the 24v Mercs have a vast appetite for oil.Check yours out before you buy.

I think the engine cooling could be a bit more efficient too. Mine struggles in Saudi when the A/c is running and ambient is up in the mid 40's - Centigrade that is. Mind you it is a German import so may not have the full tropical spec.

In the UK Mercs are far more expensive than BMW's to have serviced by dealers. In Saudi Mercs are a better bet as any spanner wielding Palestinain or Yemeni knows his way round them.

I always thought I might go for a Merc once I got to 50 but I still went for the E39 torer at 52. Having seen the latest Bangle incarnation I might struggle next time round. It does look strange.

I don't think you would regrett a W124 2.6 or 3.0 but if you can stretch to it I would get an E39 diesel and save the planet.

Eddie

Rico,

Friends have owned various BMWs in the past and I was not impressed by any of them. Neither were my friends, at least, in so far as none of them ever bought BMWs second time round.

I have had two W123s and a W126 which I still have. My wife has had a W123 and a W124 (230TE) which she still has.

We have generally bought the cars at 6/7/8 years and kept them for a further 6/7/8 years. They have been bought with 50k to 100k (miles) on the clock and been sold-on in excellent condition with 250k+ on the clock.

The 124 is a bit more plasticky than the 123 but has been totally reliable. It is a G reg 1989 model. We bought it seven years ago when it was 7 years old and had 48k on the clock. It is now 14+ years old and has 110k on the clock. Last weekend I was just finishing washing it when my neighbour popped round and just couldn't believe he was looking at an unmarked, white, 14 year-old car.

For the 124 we pay about £150 for the 6k service and about £300 for the 12k service at the local Merc franchised dealer. His labour rate is about £75ph plus VAT. Brake pads last about 24k; discs about 60k; the exhaust was replaced at about 80k when it was about 10 or 11 years old. Tyres (Michelin Primacy now) last about 40k.

The only problems I can recal are

Hydraulic leak on the self-levelling suspension
Snapped cable on the foot operated parking brake
Replace parking brake main cable because it was swollen with water/dirt
Replace defective window regulator
Replace door check-strap that prevents door openning too far (also a common problem on our other mercs)

None of the service parts or replacement parts have been expensive and none of the repairs (above) were expensive.

We have never needed the wheels re-aligning on the 124, but the other mercs have cost about £75 (probably £100 now) to do properly. Kwik-Fit et-al don't do them properly.

We don't intend to replace either the 124 or the 126 in the near future, but when we do, it will be mercs again, even though we are aware that the newer ones don't compare in quality/durability/reliability terms (allegedly)

Cheers

Don

Dear Rico,

having driven several W124 (230 E, 260 E, 300 E, 300 D), but never owned one of them, and knowing many people who have owned them for years I would say that the W124 series is one of the few you can't got wrong with, especially if you don't want a sportscar but something for comfortable riding.

Some recommendation from my experience:

- Take a car with automatic transmission ... its much better than MB's manual gearboxes
- Avoid cars of the first series (1986 - 1989), there were some technical issues
- I think best buy would be 1991 - 1995
- Don't take the 260E, it's a very silent and comfortable engine, but it lacks power and has a higher fuel consumption than the ...
- ... 300E (180 or 188 hp), which is one of the best engines they ever made. Highly recommendable.
- Avoid the 300E-24valves (220 hp) !!
- If possible, try to get a 320E, which even betters the 300E; I never really understood why this inline-six was later (already in the W210-series) replaced by the V6 of same size
- the 280E, which replaced the 260E, can be recommended as well
- At least in Germany there is an high demand for the station (T-Model) and the prices are still high. If you are looking for the sedan you could save money

Happy christmas to all reading this post
Martin

Well that was a surprise! I drove a couple of cars ysterday.

Thanks all for your considered and generous replies. You've given me much to go on.

I drove a 1990 E300 with just 83k km on the clock. I was impressed with its solidity, unflappability... the get-up-and-go from 100km was darned impressive for what must be approaching 2 tonne of car. Road feel etc nowhere near as immediate as a Beemer, yet I found myself strangely relaxed, comfortable and confident. Never feeling like I was driving fast, I nonetheless punted some of the curvy sections of my route rather quickly. Handing very forgiving, able to dial in all the wrong things at the wrong time to correct. Yep, for a big armchair sans pipe and slippers, I can now see what the fuss is about. Air worked well (very well), steering weighting nice, vis good. Solid.

Then drove a 1989 BMW 535 (e34). This had 155k km... and felt like it. Much more the drive I am used to, plenty of drama, that old (last of the) big iron-block sixes growling and grumbling away beneath the car, not happy idling at the lights, wanting to surge away. Gearing allowing real get-up-and-go, with that wail of the BMW six. Variable ratio steering I think... never been keen on that. Loads more communication from the chassis, steering etc. Soon found myself picking apexes, throwing the chassis through curves like an e30... all the time no probs from front or rear (apart from the whisper "I need some new shocks, BMW brake disks, and some bushings")... and here's the funny thing - during the whole drive, I felt like I was driving fast. A little too fast. Yet on checking the speedo at each place, I was doing the same speeds as I had done in the merc, just with slightly more dramatic acceleration in the beemer (and the econometer to remind you of this). Oh, and the aircon was bloody intusive.

So I've not given up on the BMW - I'd like to try some better examples of e34 with the 525 - they might suit. Other than that, I find myself rather quietly wowed by the W124 Merc. I'd like to suss out where the ideal buying is, age and price-wise. Yes I thin k the 300 will be the right one - the 280 and 320 look great, but will likely be too pricey for me, and I don't have a garage, so seems a shame to ruin a good car on the street. Oh yesh -the Merc had a lovely quiet sherenity in the cabin.

We'll see what next year brings. Strange - until now I've always preferred shporty cars.

cheers

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Oh yesh, forgot to mention that I was originally turned on to these cars after a friend has been running around with a high-milage 300E 1987 for a while.... and after all the remidial work, it drives rather nicely - crisp turn-in, quiet, comfortable... and same running costs as a Holden Commodore - seemingly a bargain! It has loads of AMG bits on it, and some very tasteful Merc 18 or 19" rims with decent rubber. Pace grace and space, I spose.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

So what's up with the multi-valve engines? There seems to be a good numbe rof them available over here... is it just that they are less robust? More complex and hence more constly to maintain?

TIA

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Just watch the oil consumption on those multivalvers. A friend of mine used to pour a litre of GTX in every 2000 miles or so and it had omly clocked up 120K miles. I think it was one of the first E300 24 valvers

Eddie

Try and have a look at a lexus LS400 before you buy a Merc.
Bigger, built better and all the toys including an excellent stereo system.
Dealers are much better too.

John

John, thanks for the reminder. Yes, I understand the LS400 is a great car, however the comparitive lack of numbers in this country sees their price used (imports from Japan, including the Toyota-badged Japanese domestic market versions) well above $17K NZD, and the lower numbers globally sees little in the way of aftermarket and OEM parts availabilty, unlike Mercs, BMW's etc. If I weren't on a beer budget down here in the southern hemisphere, I'd have a better look at Lexus. Oh, and I have no intention of using the dealer network for automotive maintenance on a 10+ year old car, regardless of brand. I'm sure that fits with the champagne tastes on a beer budget market segment, yes? The Mercs see more like $13K NZD.

The Merc's still in the frame.

Eddie - I'd be most concerned about that kind of oil consumption... reckon I'll steer toward a single cam version. Simple is usually better, eh?

best

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Rico,

back in the early '90s we had a 300E Coupe in for assessment. I remember being rather petulant about trying it as it wasn't my bag, baby.

Strangely, I found it a load of fun, the difference being that this (UK) car was a "Sportline" version. If you can find this option in your market, you may have found the compromise between BMW and Mercedes which I think you're looking for.

Forget the Lexus - fantastic engineering, perfect car but utterly synthetic. Every second you spend in this car will be erased from your memory.

Regards,

Brian OReilly

Brian

I have noted some on sale here have the sportline option - what is this? Is it more than black-out trim (like BMW's shadowline option)... and runs to suspension componentry (dampers, spring rates etc)?

Petulance isn't always bad.

best

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Hi Rico,
Perhaps I could add my thoughts to your W124/E34 debate...
Firstly, having owned an example of each I would say your test drive findings are spot on -the BMW being the best to drive the Merc being the best to passenger!
The Sportline option on the W124 could be just what you are looking for. It involves a modified steering box ratio, uprated anti roll
bars, springs & dampers. I understand handling is considerably improved at the expense of ride quality.
Generally, my advice would be stick with a 12 valve W124 unless you can stretch to a later 24 valve version. If you go for 24V, watch out for misfires which often come from a defective ignition loom. (It has to be moved for maintenance & eventually the conductors can break down & short out. In some cases damage to the engine ECU can result - that's bad news!)
Otherwise, the W124 is bulletproof apart from all the normal wearing/consumable items. (Exhausts are not cheap!)
E34's are similarly so - the main item to check is engine top end noise which comes from a worn camshaft. This is not at all uncommon on high mileage engines.
There is one other consideration which i'm suprised nobody else has mentioned - that's rust! W124's suffer from it,(to some degree) - E34's don't, (because their body panels are galvanised).
I've rarely seen W124's with structural rust problems but certainly cosmetics, even on late cars can suffer.
In conclusion, I doubt that you would be disappointed with either car - I certainly wasn't! I sold both of mine to friends & see them both regularly. Neither has caused their new owners any problems. (A good thing too - my E34 is now owned by my local Linn/Naim retailer....)
Good luck in your purchase.
Best Regards,
Phil.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rico:
Brian

I have noted some on sale here have the sportline option - what is this?
best

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

---

Hi Rico,

It's, er, a modified steering box ratio, uprated anti roll bars, springs & dampers. The handling is considerably improved at the expense of ride quality.(sorry Big Phil )

I think Big Phil knows more about it than I do, but the set-up was definitely sporting so no, not just cosmetic.

Regards,

Big Bri.

Rico,

If I see you driving a Merc round my manor, I'll let the tyres down.

What's your budget?

Why dont you buy a pipe and then decide?

LOL

nice one Jonno

I would buy an alfalfa, but couldn't bear the thought of heading down to the street to drive it one morning and finding the thing had simply washed/rusted away in the last rainstorm.

around 13k is the figure I had in mind. Need something bigger and stronger - as your bro will discover, carting around offspring places additional strain on space availability in one's chosen mode of transport, ergo one ends up carting around a load of extra... shit.

'Gave up the pipe years ago. Oh (!), that kind of pipe. Well, never have had any slippers anyway.

cheers

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

iv'e just joined the mercedes owners association. www.mercedesclub.org.uk. very usefull, especially for that model.

what were barn owls called before barns were invented?

Rico,

Whatever you end use choosing, make sure its fully loaded as you'll need all the creature comforts you can lay your hands on. This handy little dial may just be the ticket for checking the cars spec levels:


Steve

Rico,

Older mercs are a joy to drive, relaxing in a way that a BMW/Alfa never is. Their charms may not be immediately obvious, but are worth persevering with - you will never go back to anything else once you "get" the Merc thing.

If you want one, these are a few things to check. The spec comments relate to GB sales, not sure how highly certain bits of kit are valued in your part of the world.

Get a six, 4 cyls are not enough for the car and the engines do not last nearly as long as a result. The sixes go on forever. However, look for oil leaking from the head gaskets, both 280 and 320s suffer from this especially badly, both almost invariably do by 100k. These later W104 series are more vulnerable, but 260 and 300 W103 engined models also experience the same problem. Its a £500 job to fix.

Check the air con is gassed and that on earlier ones it has been converted to 134 coolant. It should be very cold very quickly when working properly. It is huge money to fix if more than a regas is needed.

Get leather if you can. Mercs need it in my opinion! MBTex looks similar but feels horrible. You can tell the difference by looking at the doors. Real leather will be ruched, MBTex is not. No real difference in proce, so worth holding out for the real thing.

Gearboxes are almost always OK on these, it is the later 5-speed 722.6 boxes which may give trouble. Make the usual checks though, the fluid should have been changed at the specified intervals. Check also that the proper grade of Dexron has been used.

good luck if you decide to go for it!

Ben