Foobar Help Desk

Nice one, Patrick.

Thanks Patrick. You've really helped me out with Foobar. I'm sure that others will appreciate the benefit of your experience and knowledge.

No one? Nothing? See, it isn't so hard to use!

Patrick,

A very kind offer. May I ask, what does this offer compared to itunes?, that I currently use.

Regards

RW,

My pleasure.

Foobar has much to offer.

- Infinitely customizable user interface
- VERY small program that uses little resources
- Lightening FAST!
- Can handle gigantic playlists and libraries.
- Native FLAC playback
- Great converter
- UPNP controller and server
- Gapless Playback
- Easy Re-tagging
- Replay Gain (i dont personally endorse)
- Decent ripper (although i prefer EAC)
- HUGE amount of third party components.
etc......

Google Search - "Foobar Deviantart" to see just a few of the UI possibilities.

I should mention that most people that are comfy with iTunes dont really like Foobar, and vice-versa. If you ever get frustrated with iTunes not being able to be customized as you would like, Foobar is a good program to try.

-Patrick

Good work Patrick, sorry I never got round to starting this thread myself!

Foobar is a great music player. For me, the strengths are that it ONLY plays music files (no video, no shopping, no browsing etc.). It plays more or less ALL formats (more that any Naim piece of kit anyway), and as noted, it is really lightweight and fast. If there is something you want to do with digital music, Foobar will have a 'component' (similar to a plugin)that will address the problem. There are no restrictions due to DRM, limited file support, ripping options, etc.

It took me a while to get my head around because it works in a slightly different way to other media players. Everything is based around playlists. This means that although there is a main library like itunes, WMP etc. what you really want to be doing is setting up and saving separate playlists for groups of music you like. This works really well with the Uniti(and maybe the Uniqute?)as I find I can access the Foobar playlists with only a couple of button presses.

For example I have:
auto playlists of recently added music (added in last x weeks)
auto playlists of 'all music' (I use this for easy random play from my whole collection when i'm feeling lazy)
auto playlists of mixed genres e.g. downtempo AND electronica
specific playlists e.g. party tunes for next Saturday

The way you can configure playlists is almost unlimited, so whatever you want you can have.

I personally like replay gain. It makes all my digital files similar in volume played through my Uniti or PC, without actually altering the files.

These are your three most important links:
Foobar main site
Foobar official components repository
Foobar forums hosted on hydrogenaudio


By the way, to stream over UPnP you need the UPnP server/control point component ( get it here)

One last thing...as with all digital music, the key to a good experience is having a really well tagged collection. Bear in mind that different companies use the metadata fields in slightly different ways (e.g. 'Album Artist' and 'band' are particularly contentious). If you're getting inconsistent results, check how your player handles the tagging. MP3TAG is my personal choice of free tagging software, and uses similar syntax to Foobar.

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
Hi Patrick

Foobar is doing well for me. You're quite right in saying that you need to be meticulous about metadata!

Just a couple of things that I still haven't worked out ...

1. Using the DarkOne skin, how can I skip further into the track that is playing? When I did this using the default skin it took ages to start playing again so some advice on buffer settings would probably be helpful.

2. When I scroll down my list of albums when making a selection using the downward cursor key, it takes me through each track on each album. Is there a way to scan through just the albums and not the individual tracks.

Thanks

1. Set up keyboard commands for this (as well as anything else you can think of). Pref>General>Keyboard Shortcuts

I use right arrow as a 10 second forward jump, left backup 10 sec.

Otherwise simply grab the "Slider" and simply drag it where you want. This works on both the Foobar Screen as well as the Remote App.


2. Yes down and up arrow move you through the playlist tracks. Use your mouse to scroll.

Otherwise you can try to redefine what the up and down arrow do in the above mentioned pref setting.

Hope this helps.
-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by Doctor Jazz:
Hi Patrick

Foobar is doing well for me. You're quite right in saying that you need to be meticulous about metadata!

Just a couple of things that I still haven't worked out ...

1. Using the DarkOne skin, how can I skip further into the track that is playing? When I did this using the default skin it took ages to start playing again so some advice on buffer settings would probably be helpful.

...
Thanks

You can also use the slidebar on the left of the screen just above the tracknumber. The timer will follow the position of the slidebar.

Regarding buffering, I didn't do anything special, 500 ms and I can slide without any stuttering or delays.

-
aleg

Just to jump in and say thanks to Patrick for his help so far with Foobar. Thanks ...and also to say, it's great to see people going out their way to help others around here. It is very much appreciated and I'm sure this thread will now help others too, as common questions are answered and remain here, they'll become a reference and not require further clarification in the future....haha, he says!

Been working hard for the last week or so but I'm away now to tinker and try understand the last advice you gave me Patrick, maybe by the end of today, foobar and I, will be living in harmony
Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by gypsykirk:
Hey Patrick, how goes it?
I wasn't sure whether to continue here or go over to your dedicated thread, I'm thinking here is probably best.
OK.....
I think I'm in control with my playlists now ,
however, i like you, do not wish to configure double click as suggested.

What is a little annoying, when configuring playlists is, the fact that, if I have my playlist highlighted, I'm in the "al" and I'm just adding away to my hearts content...until however, i wish to listen to a tune quickly, to see if i wanna add it.
Alot of my music requires me to do this (foreign artists, titles etc) so I am constantly switching between pl to select the relevant playlist again and "al" to listen to a track before i add it. Not a massive concern, just a little annoying.

The big problem is the remote!!!! It just doesn't work very well IMO!
eg...
The first thing that happened was i went to shuffle a playlist is, it crashed and i lost the playlists! not a big problem, I was only experimenting anyway.
However, the big let down with it is (after some trial and error)....

To have your music collection available to you, you MUST select "remote selection" on foobar on the computer!!!! this is the only way to select an album on remote and it will play the ablums tracks consecutively, display artwork on pc, then allow you to keep changing artists albums etc!!, the big problem with this is, if you now want to listen to a playlist you NEED to get up and select it in "pl" on computer or after the first track on the playlist you have selected, has played, it'll revert back to the previous album playing instead of playing the playlist in it's entirety too....don't know why this is, it's a shame because it's almost there i would say!
Cheers.

Gypsy,

I am not exactly sure the problem you are having with switching between AL and PL in regards to listening to a track. Maybe you can clarify a little?

Regarding the Remote App. Keep in mind that it is a work in progress and is not designed to work in this fashion. But it does work really well for what it is.

I dont use playlists when using the Remote App. I ONLY browse by Artist then Album. I like to listen this way.

In fact I dont use Playlist at all except for one Playlist that has EVERYYHING, called "ALL MUSIC". I select this in Foobar (NOT in Remote), then turn on random and let my entire archive run. When something suits my fancy, I turn random off.

You can control this "ALL MUSIC" playlist with Remote, but dont "Select" the playlist in Remote or it might crash the app given the size of the playlist. This happens in iTunes as well, so no worries there. It jut cant spool a list that big to the iPhone.

Regarding the "Remote Selection" playlist, yes it is a known bug (that will be fixed), that it does not automatically become the "active" playlist when you are already playing in Foobar, then select something in Remote. After the song ends on Remote, Foobar will start playing the "active" playlist on the screen.

An easy workaround for this is to either use Remote exclusively, or simply select the "Remote Selection" playlist before seshing from the Remote.

Unless using "Playback Queue", Foobar will always play the active playlist shown on the screen.

If you are using The Remote exclusively, simply select the Remote playlist and turn off your display. Playlists (if not enormous) will be selectable in Remote.

If you are using the Screen AND the Remote they will conflict sometimes and require a mouse click or two.

did I help at all?

-Patrick

Foobar & Compilation Albums

I'm finding it hard to organise compilation albums in Foobar. I have two of the 'Nuggets' box sets and the 6CD 'Woodstock: Back To Yasgur's Farm' sets. When I rip the CDs the metadata specifies the individual artists for each of the tracks, e.g. Artist (Santana), Track Title (Soul Sacrifice). This isn't a problem but when I have imported the rip folder into Foobar and I select 'Sort by Artist', Foobar then partitions a multiple artist compilation into multiple albums in the library list.

I want to keep each individual disc of a compilation set as a separate album so I have edited the metadata. I remove the name of the artist from the appropriate field and include it in the track title. This works fine but I lose the biography information that the DarkOne skin provides and that's a nice touch.

Patrick ... Can you please advise me as to the best way to do this?

Thanks as always

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
RW,

My pleasure.

Foobar has much to offer.

- Infinitely customizable user interface
- VERY small program that uses little resources
- Lightening FAST!
- Can handle gigantic playlists and libraries.
- Native FLAC playback
- Great converter
- UPNP controller and server
- Gapless Playback
- Easy Re-tagging
- Replay Gain (i dont personally endorse)
- Decent ripper (although i prefer EAC)
- HUGE amount of third party components.
etc......

Google Search - "Foobar Deviantart" to see just a few of the UI possibilities.

I should mention that most people that are comfy with iTunes dont really like Foobar, and vice-versa. If you ever get frustrated with iTunes not being able to be customized as you would like, Foobar is a good program to try.

-Patrick

And to add, iTunes isn't 'bit perfect' in Windows XP.

Jazz,
Various artist albums present problems in every media player I know of. But it all comes down to tagging.

Different players handle "artist" and "album artist" differently. For example, iTunes uses "album artist" first for sorting. Foobar will use whatever you tell it.

Firstly, put all Various Artist albums in a "Various Artist" or "VA" Folder. This way at least everything will be good in Album List (if using "Directory Structure").

At this point though you will see an individual album with 1 track for every artist when you pull up the album. Not a big deal but probably not what you want.

To fix this I would set BOTH "artist" and "album artist" tags to "VA". Then extract the artist into the the Track name.

This way a VA album will show up like any other album.

The downside to this is that when using any kind of artist view that uses the tags (such as the Remote App), you will need to search via the "album name", requiring you to know what VA album that obscure track is on.

I personally meet the problem half-way. I leave the tracks tagged correctly (which scatters the album all over artist view), but since I keep them in a "VA" folder and use Directory Structure in my Album List, the are easily selectable there.

Hope this helps some,
Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Jazz,
Various artist albums present problems in every media player I know of. But it all comes down to tagging.

Different players handle "artist" and "album artist" differently. For example, iTunes uses "album artist" first for sorting. Foobar will use whatever you tell it.

Firstly, put all Various Artist albums in a "Various Artist" or "VA" Folder. This way at least everything will be good in Album List (if using "Directory Structure").

At this point though you will see an individual album with 1 track for every artist when you pull up the album. Not a big deal but probably not what you want.

To fix this I would set BOTH "artist" and "album artist" tags to "VA". Then extract the artist into the the Track name.

This way a VA album will show up like any other album.

The downside to this is that when using any kind of artist view that uses the tags (such as the Remote App), you will need to search via the "album name", requiring you to know what VA album that obscure track is on.

I personally meet the problem half-way. I leave the tracks tagged correctly (which scatters the album all over artist view), but since I keep them in a "VA" folder and use Directory Structure in my Album List, the are easily selectable there.

Hope this helps some,
Patrick

Can I say that sounds horrid - I guess we've found something where iTunes excells over Foobar at last :-)

iTunes has a "compilation" tick box ... simple as that (assuming the Gracenote data is correct)

Eloise,

If tagged correctly Foobar handles them just fine, but as the remote app is coded differently (this "tick box" doesn't exist there) they will conflict with each other.

There are many ways in which iTunes excels over Foobar. The millions of iTunes users must say something. Those ways just dont matter to me, thats all.

I do have one need for iTunes in my life (other than syncing my iPhone to Outlook), and that is for ripping albums with pre-emphasis.

iTunes is the only ripper I know of that will decode pre-emphasis on the fly, during the rip. I only have a handful of CDs with pre-emphasis, but they are some of my favorites.....

Miles Davis 80s CBS pressings.
Toto - IV
DSOTM
etc...

EAC will perfectly rip them with the "pre flags" in the cue, but if the files are played (not re-burned) the tracks will be bright and unlistenable. EAC is fine if you plan on re-burning the files for some reason and playing the CDs.

iTunes is very handy here.

-Patrick

Eloise,

When you use this compilation tick box, where do you find the albums when in Artist filter?

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Jazz,
Various artist albums present problems in every media player I know of. But it all comes down to tagging.

Different players handle "artist" and "album artist" differently. For example, iTunes uses "album artist" first for sorting. Foobar will use whatever you tell it.

Firstly, put all Various Artist albums in a "Various Artist" or "VA" Folder. This way at least everything will be good in Album List (if using "Directory Structure").

At this point though you will see an individual album with 1 track for every artist when you pull up the album. Not a big deal but probably not what you want.

To fix this I would set BOTH "artist" and "album artist" tags to "VA". Then extract the artist into the the Track name.

This way a VA album will show up like any other album.

The downside to this is that when using any kind of artist view that uses the tags (such as the Remote App), you will need to search via the "album name", requiring you to know what VA album that obscure track is on.

I personally meet the problem half-way. I leave the tracks tagged correctly (which scatters the album all over artist view), but since I keep them in a "VA" folder and use Directory Structure in my Album List, the are easily selectable there.

Hope this helps some,
Patrick

Thanks Patrick. I think that you're quite right in saying that it's all down to tagging and the things that you have suggested are the solutions that I have found to date. I hate having single albums scattered over the library list so I try to stop that from happening.

Is iTunes any good? Last I heard it couldn't offer exclusive mode with WASAPI and therefore, it cannot provide bit perfect replay.

Is iTunes any good? Sure. I dont think it sounds any different than Foobar. But that is just my experience.

iTunes can be bit-perfect just like anything else.

My first major stumbling block with iTunes is its lack of FLAC playback.

Although in an effort to use it I converted about 30% of my collection to ALAC just to see if we could get along. After a few weeks I just couldn't deal with it. It sounded just fine, and control via the Remote app is stellar. But I just dont like the UI. It doesn't offer lyrics, bios, and artist pictures. IT wont look at folder.jpgs for art. And it can never find art for 1/3 of my albums. And it is slow when you crest 30K or so.

For me media players are all about the interface. Foobar gives me everything I want. As far as I am concerned, if bit perfect they all sound identical. I have tried:

Cplay
iTunes
Winamp
J River
Foobar
Songbird

Lastly, I dont know why but I dont like the sounds of "add-ons" to bit perfect players that alter the sound, e.g. Amarra, Pure Vinyl, Cplay etc.

I just dont like it. One of them openly uses EQ'ing to change the sound. I am not saying all do but I just dont like the idea of EQ'ing or up/over sampling data in the media player. I dont like it. I dont know why.

-patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
When you use this compilation tick box, where do you find the albums when in Artist filter?

If you have your music properly tagged, i.e. click the compilation tick box for albums with multiple artists, then you get a "Compilations" choice in the artists browser or if in covers view you have them listed as Various Artist. What you also find though is that tracks for artists that you have outside of the compilations are also listed with the relevant artist.

I do agree with you Patrick that what's important in a Music Player is the UI. Like you I find that the is little to no difference in the SQ between iTunes and (when I used Windows) J.River and Foobar, but I've always found the iTunes UI suits me perfectly. You mention lyrics and artists bios - neither of which have any interest to me. The idea of Artist pictures would be nice for the grid view.

Eloise

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:
You mention lyrics and artists bios - neither of which have any interest to me.
Eloise

Me neither until I had them. Bios are nice for guests. Lyrics are fun for dance party!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

If you have your music properly tagged, i.e. click the compilation tick box for albums with multiple artists, then you get a "Compilations" choice in the artists browser or if in covers view you have them listed as Various Artist.

How is that different than what you called "horrid"? If your tracks weren't tagged correctly you have to rename them just like a Foobar user.

In fact if named correctly you dont even need to "tick a box". So iTunes is actually clumsier.

Without "Directory Structure" I find that my music ends up all over the place in iTunes regardless of hpw dialed my tags are.

-Patrick

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

quote:

Originally posted by Eloise:

If you have your music properly tagged, i.e. click the compilation tick box for albums with multiple artists, then you get a "Compilations" choice in the artists browser or if in covers view you have them listed as Various Artist.

How is that different than what you called "horrid"? If your tracks weren't tagged correctly you have to rename them just like a Foobar user.

The horrid bit was...

quote:

At this point though you will see an individual album with 1 track for every artist when you pull up the album. Not a big deal but probably not what you want.

To fix this I would set BOTH "artist" and "album artist" tags to "VA". Then extract the artist into the the Track name.

Which means (unless I misunderstood) my Divas of Jazz album (for exxample) would have Artist and Album Artist tags both set to "Various Artists" and I would have to then have
Track 1: Mad About The Boy - Dinah Washington
Track 2: Stormy Weather - Billy Holiday
Track 3: Manhattan - Ella Fitzgerald
etc.

With iTunes you can leave the Artist correct for the individual track, click the "Compilation" box and not only does it display the Divas of Jazz album amongst the Compilation / Various Artist section but also within other Billy Holiday albums it shows there is a track on Divas of Jazz.

quote:

In fact if named correctly you dont even need to "tick a box". So iTunes is actually clumsier.

How is ticking a box clumsier than having to name your tracks / albums as above?

quote:

Without "Directory Structure" I find that my music ends up all over the place in iTunes regardless of hpw dialed my tags are.

I guess I just click with iTunes as I've never had any real trouble with letting iTunes organise my files. I did have slight issue moving a copy to Windows that iTunes under Mac created longer folder names than under Windows, but that just left some empty folders.

But each to their own ... as you say each music player seams to have it's own foibles. I'm not suggesting iTunes is perfect at all - just the way it works works well for me.

Eloise

Understood.

If not tagged correctly you must fix it.

I tag correctly so dont have to do anything.

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
Understood.

If not tagged correctly you must fix it.

I tag correctly so dont have to do anything.

Sorry Patrick - you might have understood me but I don't understand you there ...

What do you mean "tag correctly" - iTunes relies on Gracenote (though I tend to actually rip with XLD now which used MusicBrain iirc). Sometimes the tags need correcting due to original user error / stupidity!

Eloise

I really dont know what we are talking about now.

All i was trying to do was explain to DJ how to mkae things appears correctly in Foobar when using the Remote App ALSO with the use of the Dark One Config's EL playlist.

They three handle things differently. The standard way (as you do in iTunes) will work wonderfully in Foobar in general, and Dark One. But when using the Remote app or the EL playlist in Dark One, they use different tags (or display differently) than Foobar.

EL Playlist has a particular way of showing things. (if you dont like it dont use it)

Remote does it own thing.

Foobar can do it anyway you want.

All rely on correct tagging.

I am not sure what you are going on about. You like iTunes, i like Foobar. Besides that, Im not sure what we are discussing at this point.

Anyway.... my discussion above is specifically addressing VA albums within the context of Foobar + Remote + Dark One. It doesn;t apply to anything else. I think that is your confusion.