Millennium Seed Bank - Wakehurst Place

See if you can blag a trip to look over the Svalbard Global Seed Vault, should be a good day out.

I did not want to swank about the Norwegian contribution, but they do have their priotities right, and it is currently the best...

They can afford to do it, and know it should be done. So could we in UK...

ATB from George

Yes, Svalbard was discussed. Hardly the best though George - it is not even finished yet!

I also saw the wreath worn by Tutankhamun in his coffin. Contrary to popular myth none of the seeds found in his tomb were viable - they had all carbonised.

Dear acad,

I would hardly expect any British organisation to concede that Norwegians may be doing better in what should be a British field of excellence!

It was discussed on the Farming Programme [before 6am on Radio Four] some time ago, and the despair of the experts was that the UK simply could do better than the Norwegians if it was properly financed, but that we were not!

Did I say it was finished, by the way! The plans will be fulfilled at Svalbard, and there is nothing quite like it in terms of security of the site or quality of storage anywhere else, so it is arguable the best to date!

ATB from George

I think you are right George and it is so cool to have Polar Bears guarding the seeds.

George,

The Wakehurst place Millennium Seed Project is about much much more than the storage of crop seeds. It is about research and education and the storage of all seeds not just crop seeds. They already have over a billion seeds safely tucked away.

The Norwegians will eventually have the most secure facility for the storage of crop seeds but it won't rival Wakehurst in terms of so many other things and Wakehurst will get new funding. Moreover the cost of the Svalbard facility is tiny compared to the cost of Wakehurst and its much wider scope and detail of research activities.

A balanced view comes from objective assessment not just thinking 'I'm half Norwegian so Norway is best'.

I suppose that my view is also from an agricultural standpoint.

My real point is, however that British expertise in the field means that we in Britain should be leading the World in this! Your OP seems to indicate [as the Farming Programme also suggested] that in Britain we are not financing the efforts and therefore hardly even doing what is our responsibility in fact. I think it is typical that the serious Norwegians are completlely responsible in this respect, and are not posessed of the ususal short-termist Anglo-Saxon capitalistic vision of starving efforts that are not immediately profitable of the necessary finance, without a proper row first, and then financing it grudgingly.

It has nothing to do with my being half Norwegian except that I keep up with some of the news about that country which I am inevitably proud in many ways!

Britain has many good points but no monopoly of them! George

No fighting lads, a fine example of cooperation between Norway & UK saves us all from doom.

The possibilty of Russia being a menace has certainly not gone away. Mr Putin is by no means the most nationalistic of Russian politician who could potentially run the country, and the small countries, militarily and economically, near Russia have never quite lost their fear of what could happen if there was a truly ultra-nationalistic government in Moscow.

Interestingly several of these nations, most exposed to Russia geographically, regard the UK as their best Ally...

It is good to see that vigilance in this matter continues. "Real Politic" continues, which is a sad reflection on today's World, and vigilance must be kept up.

All the brest from George

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:

[QUOTE] My real point is, however that British expertise in the field means that we in Britain should be leading the World in this!

George, I don't care who leads the world in this important work, I only care that the work is done. It just so happens that Britain does lead the world here and there are more botanist at Wakehurst per square metre than anywhere else in the world (there will be none at Svalbard as far as I know).

There are hundreds of seed banks all around the world (mainly storing cash crop seeds)and there is some overlap (but not as much as is really needed in my view)in what is stored (each country stores its own seeds but some countries store some of the seeds of other nations)but there is a difference in the mere storing (especially the mere storing of cash crops)and all the other research work that needs to be done and it is here that the British effort stands out from the rest. At the Millennium Seed Bank 96% of the UK seeds have been stored (the missing 4% are not storable)so in fact the UK stores 100% of its storable seeds and 10% of the worlds seeds - I don't mean 10% of the worlds cash crop seed types - I mean 10% of the total world seed types - which will rise to 40% over the next couple of years and there are plans to store 100% of the total world seed types.

quote:

Your OP seems to indicate [as the Farming Programme also suggested] that in Britain we are not financing the efforts and therefore hardly even doing what is our responsibility in fact.

Not so. We are financing our efforts and we are taking responsibility but the financing stops in 2009 with no plans as yetfor new funds from the government. The question is: will we continue to fund and perform our responsibilities? It is not a question we should have to ask and here the Norwegians, as you correctly point out have got it right but we have not got it entirely wrong - as yet. Don't forget the amounts of money we are talking about here are not even remotely similar - the Svalbard storage facility cost $5,000 (US)to build with minimal cost involved for ongoing operation and the Millennium Seed Bank cost £17,000 to build with high operating costs involved for ongoing research etc. However, as the chief scientist said to me the costs involved are roughly equal to what David beckham earns in a year so it is a scandal of huge proportion that more funds are not readily available.

Various options for funding are now being discussed which include government and EEC funding as well as private and corporate funding.

The MP who asked me to lend some weight to yesterdays discussions is a junior environmental minister (which is why she called me - she knows next to nothing about environmental issues)and she we will hopefully be working with Nicholas Soames who is a friend of Prince Charles (who visited the seed bank at Wakehurst recently)blah blah blah...so you see work is being done - now where I think the scandal lies is that the government has NOT (at this time)guaranteed funds in advance to leave the management of Wakehurst to get on with their jobs minus the worry and time and effort hosting twits like my local MP and myself (and a couple of bods from the 'Ecologist' magazine I dragged along).

The government has other priorities like fighting stupid wars in Iraq and Afghanistan which means all other funding has to be fought for instead of being dished out intelligently.

You are right, in my view, as this lack of priority and short term thinking is clearly wrong and Norway does gets it right but the UK has not got it entirely wrong - not yet anyway.

quote:

I think it is typical that the serious Norwegians are completlely responsible in this respect, and are not posessed of the ususal short-termist Anglo-Saxon capitalistic vision of starving efforts that are not immediately profitable of the necessary finance, without a proper row first, and then financing it grudgingly.

I think this is fair. See above.

quote:

It has nothing to do with my being half Norwegian

I don't think that is right.

quote:

Britain has many good points but no monopoly of them!

This goes without saying methinks.

I agree with your points about Russia. I think it entirely possible that Putin will not stand down as president.

Dear Acad,

I have no idea if we agree or not on the issue seed storage, but I am certain that we are both wrong from time to time in this issue and that! The difference is that I know that my view is based on the evidence I have encountered, and my own particular experience, whereas you think that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong!

Yours is a self appointed omniscient view, which brooks no disagreement, and mine is one that will never be concrete, because I could always be argued out of it! Therefore at a fundamental level you are less able to see what is right than I!

Please believe that my knowledge and expertise in the issue of seed extends considerably further than meeting my MP and the acquaintance of a couple of environmentalists! I will elaborate in another post if you feel the need to continue you quest. You have hit on something I do know something about!

Kindest regards from George

Come on chaps, put this into perspective. Healthy debate is er, healthy, but you guys are teetering on the brink of a slanging match about seeds! You are two of the forum members I most respect, let's not fall out over this and just acknowledge that both units do excellent and essential work.

Ps. Aren't trees brilliant?!!

Mark

And other plants too of course!

But not as much as trees.

Dear Mark,

A copuple of years ago ago I sasked what brought me to this neck of the woods. I replied, "The trees!"

I am the missing link! George

Dear George

I absolutely adore trees, they are my favourite living things. When I die I would like to be burned and sprinkled where a new tree is planted. I'm rarely happier than when amongst trees.

Mark

Dear Mark

My favourites are dogs!



Every time I meet a new dog this is the result! This was three weeks ago in Poland. In Jaslo, actuallly.

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Chillkram:


Ps. Aren't trees brilliant?!!

Mark

Hi Mark,

I took loads of photos at Wakehurst especially photos of trees - I found some growing on an outcrop of sandstone and you could see all the roots crawling all over the rocks. It looked very Tolkienesque so I took the pic to post here thinking you would especially like it.

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
It looked very Tolkienesque so I took the pic to post here thinking you would especially like it.

I'd like that Acad. I look forward to seing your pics.

Regards

Mark

Last night I saw the Ents go into battle (LOTR something) although not quite the Ents I pictured in my mind's eye when I first plowed through Tolkin's many years ago. Some of the most awe inspiring trees I have ever seen are in ancient rain forest on Vancouver Island, must return before to that part of the World sometime soon.

There are Ents at Wakehurst although they have become quite treeish of late. Somebody tried to dig one up and and freeze it in the seed bank recently and got a punch on the nose for their efforts - which is fair I think. It may be possible to make young Entings without Entwives - apparently the MoD were interested in footing the bill but thus far Ents have proved to be hopeless on the drill square and don't much like 24 hour ration packs. As in LotR there are Rangers at Wakehurst but they get around on quad bikes not horses. There are no Orcs but quite a few orchids.

Fascinating place. Actually the idea of protecting seeds against nuclear war seems very different
from having this huge seed library because nuclear war tends to upset one's priorities.
Crops and painkillers and maybe you can dismantle the generators to make good use of them elsewhere.

Alexander,

There are many reasons for the seed bank - nuclear war is only one of them - these days the priorities are to protect against climate catastrophe (inevitable and possibly even imminent) and GM crop disaster.

From the same people that give us Foot and Mouth Disease

quote:

Originally posted by acad tsunami:
Alexander,

There are many reasons for the seed bank - nuclear war is only one of them - these days the priorities are to protect against climate catastrophe (inevitable and possibly even imminent) and GM crop disaster.

Why not let nature decide?