Millennium Seed Bank - Wakehurst Place

Posted by: acad tsunami on 07 September 2007

Last week my local MP phoned me inviting me to a free lunch Roll Eyes .

I said there is no such thing as a free lunch especially where politicians are involved and asked her for the small print. It turned out that in order to get my free feed I had to assist her on a day at
Wakehurst Place which is part of Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew.

This morning we went to see the chief scientist at Wakehurst to discuss various funding options for the Millennium Seed Bank - I am staggered that the incredibly important work the seed bank does is threatened by a lack of funds which will completely run out in 2009 and even by next year staff will have to be laid off to skeleton levels.

We spent the whole day in labs, cold storage rooms at -20 degrees, underground nuclear bunkers, incubator rooms and a glass house where they were growing plants from 200 year old seeds recently found in a dusty old book in the public records office. It was quite a thought to realise that the plant I saw was grown from a seed placed between the pages of a book while Nelson was duffing the French up at Trafalgar.

'In particular, banking seeds provides a last resort for the protection of plant species that are condemned to extinction'. Given the possibilities of future environmental catastrophe resulting from global warming it is all the more crucial that the work of the seed bank continues. At a time when almost every other country in the world is increasing spending on their seed banks the UK which leads the world with the biggest and best seed bank by far is reducing spending.

Wakehurst Place is set in hundreds of acres of the most beautiful sussex countryside and offers a great family day out.

Anyone else been there?
Posted on: 14 September 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
[QUOTE]

Why not let nature decide?


For the reason that if most, if not all, of the livestock was wiped out together with most, if not all, of our cash crops, we would have nothing much left to eat except each other. Eek
Posted on: 14 September 2007 by u5227470736789439
I imagine that if nuclear catastrophe or ruinous climate change occurs, then the "new crops and livestock" will have as big a problem surviving as the human race. In many ways this looks inevitable to me. But nature will populate the destroyed and newly unbalanced environment with some form of living creatures and plants even if these be bullrushes and cockroaches, or some such! Robust life forms...

I don't really think we need to worry too much about fiddling at the edges on environmental issues. The real problem is too many humans, already, let alone the accelerating increase in the growth of that population. This question is never even asked in the mainstream, and as I don't inhabit the fringe, I have no idea if it discussed there. No please don't post any links. I can think for myself!

The pessimist as ever, George
Posted on: 14 September 2007 by acad tsunami
Hi George,

I agree, too many people on the planet. 100 years ago there were 1 billion. Now there are 6 billion. In a hundred years there will be .....I don't even want to think about it...just cockroaches probably?
Posted on: 14 September 2007 by u5227470736789439
Completely adreed! George
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by ianmacd
quote:
Originally posted by acad tsunami:
I agree, too many people on the planet.


Are you ready for this?

For the first time, I am in 100% agreement. 110% even.

It's amazing to me and my wife (no kids!) that population growth is never dared to be mentioned by politicians, the press or whoever else.

Think of any of the world's resource problems or pollution and it is there staring you in the face. The more people, the more the problem.

As the population grows, great, let's build more houses on what bit of country side is left.

Regarding resources, my wife and I use less water because we haven't got kids having baths every day. Less fuel because we aren't cursed with school runs and blah, blah, it goes on.

Another tiny, maybe pathetic example, our wheelie bin is only ever half full (or is that half empty!) on collection day. Our neighbours bins are briming over with an additional couple of sacks stacked next to the bin. Multiply that up and it's a huge impact on the land fill sites and consequently the environment.

Because we have decided not to have kids ever, I think we should be rewarded by a reduction in our income tax. Our impact on the world is much less than a family that has children.

I'm not knocking families with kids, but there has to be some pay back, it's only fair.

If I've stirred a hornet's nest here with some, let's keep things chilled-out and polite in our replies, what do you say?

Regards, Ian
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Don Atkinson
quote:
I agree, too many people on the planet.

Frightening!!

Acad, Fredrik, Ian and myself all agree....

I won't post any links because this will simply upset Fredrik and encourage Acad, but my posts on this subject on this forum go back a few years.

However, I'm beginning to think that Putin and Bush are moving towards a "quick-fix" solution....

Cheers

Don
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by ianmacd
quote:

Frightening!!

Acad, Fredrik, Ian and myself all agree....


Ha, ha! It's a historic moment for the forum, isn't it?

I know what you mean about the quick fix...

Just to move direction for a second, it's very worrying for me that although we are cocooned in a so called civilised society, there would be instant melt down if there was a real national crisis. Look at the Northern Rock panic yesterday or remember back to panic buying of petrol a few years ago.

I think the UK supermarket shelves would be emptied in 24 hours if certain conditions prevailed. Just watch people in Tesco at Christmas to see the true side of human nature.

Not wanting to preach doom and gloom, but it almost makes you want to have tinned food and bottled water stashed, just in case!

But I am wandering way off topic here so apologies to the originator, let's get back to Seeds.

Regards, Ian
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Nigel Cavendish
quote:
Originally posted by acad tsunami:
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
[QUOTE]

Why not let nature decide?


For the reason that if most, if not all, of the livestock was wiped out together with most, if not all, of our cash crops, we would have nothing much left to eat except each other. Eek


And that would be bad?
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Alexander
quote:
Originally posted by acad tsunami:
Alexander,

There are many reasons for the seed bank - nuclear war is only one of them - these days the priorities are ...


If the priorities are achieved then that's excellent.

Trying to achieve multiple aims can be like trying to build a family car that can also serve in formula one racing. You get something that does neither well. This seedbank at least appears to be a well built family car even though it has this weird hightech spoiler on the back just in case you want to play formula 1. That's still a good outcome.

Building the thing like a huge vault also gives the impression of a serious bank, which is a nice selling point, but if your single aim would be to prepare for real postnuclear war conditions wouldn't the approach be very different?
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:
Originally posted by AlexanderVH:
[QUOTE]

[QUOTE] Building the thing like a huge vault also gives the impression of a serious bank, which is a nice selling point,


An impressive steel door was in fact added as a selling point!

quote:
but if your single aim would be to prepare for real postnuclear war conditions wouldn't the approach be very different?


Yes, but it ain't the single aim so the approach is what it is. In the event of nuclear catastrophe the Wakehurst solution would be a small part of a very much larger plan and there would be plenty of overlap.

Re. nuclear war, Bush and Putin etc. ok wars are jolly good for reducing the population and making lots of dosh for International banks and the Presidents cronies etc. but if one wants to seriously reduce numbers whilst protecting your own the best way would be to map the human genome, genetically alter a virus which will only target certain genetic types (have lots of antidotes stock piled just in case things get out of hand)experiment on black people in Africa then unleash said virus and let 'nature take its course' whilst wringing your hands and gnashing your teeth on TV to show how much you care. Oh wait - has it already been done?

Viruses are very efficient killers. Spanish flu wiped out between 50-100 million people! All kinds of nasty stuff is safely locked up in labs all over the world and the technology exists to weaponise it all. You can even release it then claim it came from a cave in the Tora Bora mountains!
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:
Originally posted by Nigel Cavendish:
quote:


For the reason that if most, if not all, of the livestock was wiped out together with most, if not all, of our cash crops, we would have nothing much left to eat except each other. Eek


And that would be bad?


It would be very bad indeed if you were a strict vegetarian.
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Don Atkinson
quote:
You can even release it then claim it came from a cave in the Tora Bora mountains!


Brilliant!!!

Far swifter and way more effective than the voluntary comtraception idea that I had in mind.

Cheers

Don
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by acad tsunami
Don,

I think there is something to be said for making couples take a parenting exam - if they fail the exam twice they get rewarded with a free vasectomy.
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Deane F
quote:
Originally posted by acad tsunami:

I think there is something to be said for making couples take a parenting exam - if they fail the exam twice they get rewarded with a free vasectomy.


I assume it will be children conducting this exam?
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by Derek Wright
Males should be disabled at puberty - they then have to justify by action and intellect that they should be enabled to breed.
Posted on: 15 September 2007 by u5227470736789439
Interesting turn to the discussion.

I wonder if the act of having the sense not to procreate in an individual means that in fact that individual should be passing on the cautionary attitude to his or her own off-spring! And those who would do it thoughtlessly should be the ones, somehow neutered...

Without some very draconian laws, applied in every country none of this is never going to happen, and the remorseless gallop to the cliff for the huamn race will continue till it exhausts the planet as we know it. How soon this will be I don't know: 30 years, 50, 100, 150...

But it is going to happen, as sure as little apples...

ATB from George
Posted on: 22 September 2007 by acad tsunami
Mark,

Sorry but I'm crap at taking pics and it was getting dark - such a pity because the rock you see here is only the top quarter and the roots crawl all over the rock and into the ground - the whole thing makes for the best climbing frame any kid could have.

Posted on: 22 September 2007 by Chillkram
I see what you mean, Acad.
Posted on: 24 September 2007 by acad tsunami
quote:
Originally posted by Chillkram:
I see what you mean, Acad.


About the trees being 'Tolkienesque' or me being crap at taking pics? Razz
Posted on: 24 September 2007 by Chillkram
quote:
Originally posted by acad tsunami:
About the trees being 'Tolkienesque' or me being crap at taking pics? Razz


Acad

I'm in no position to criticise anyone's picture taking capabilities! I mean they are very Tolkienesque.

They look like they are ready to crush some of those burarum, those evileyed-blackhanded-bowlegged-flinthearted-clawfingered-foulbellied-bloodthirsty....'


Mark
Posted on: 25 September 2007 by Shayman
quote:
our wheelie bin is only ever half full (or is that half empty!) on collection day. Our neighbours bins are briming over with an additional couple of sacks stacked next to the bin.

Because we have decided not to have kids ever, I think we should be rewarded by a reduction in our income tax.


We've got a child yet our bin goes out every 4 weeks approx. I never understand what it is these people throw away each week. Like you, our next door neighbour puts out piles of stuff each week and complains bitterly that 2 week collections may be the future of refuse collection.

Jonathan

PS as someone who works with GM plants and has worked at Kew Gardens....

i) I agree the Milennium Seed project is an essential venture that deserves funding.

ii) I can assure you that GM technology poses minimal if any threat to biodiversity on a worldwide scale (not that anyone ever listens. What would people who've dedicated their lives to studying these technologies know Smile)