Naim and BlueRay or HD?

kevin

you can get a very good hd dvd player for £250 , and also a blu ray at £300 a ps3 ( lots and lots of updates).
my advice buy BOTH as some films are software specific.
for what its worth i dont think any high end manufacturer will produce a disc player yet ( toooo risky ) . they will concentrate on getting the hd audio formats into their processers via hdmi first . jmo

neil

Hi Kevin.

Like yourself, I've been looking at the HD format market. My inclination is to go for Blu-Ray, but I'm holding fire until the situation becomes a bit clearer.

The main problem I've got is that with this stuff there's a hell of a lot of boxes to tick in terms of sound formats and options, and there aren't any players of either format that come close enough for me.

I'm quite interested in the Samsung BD-UP5000 dual-format player because it's got the necessary (for me) 7.1 analogue outputs and decodes most of the HD sound formats.

However, It's release in the U.K. has been delayed so I'm not going to order one just yet.

A more interesting option is the Passive Technologies' Lifestation HD, which appears to be a computer with a large internal hard drive & dual-format capability, plus loads of other clever stuff. It's about £3.5K though, & I'm not sure if it's available yet!

Kevin,

I would class myself as an early adopter ...but not with this.

My understanding is that HD discs account for about 1% of DVD sales; and so there is no guarantee that either will gain real traction in the marketplace.

The standards upon which these systems depend are still being developed.

In the near future the major studio that supports both formats is reportedly going to decide on just one ....that might make a decisive difference.

In terms of sales figures within HD I believe you are into lies, damn lies and statistics territory.

BD would claim to be the market leader.

HD-DVD would counter by saying that the sales figures are gained of the back of PS3s, and so boxes sold to gamers - not videophiles.

Personally I am still sitting this one out.

Hopefully by the time this reaches a conclusion LCD screens will be on a par with Plasma in all areas - and so I'll do an all round upgrade.

M

Yes, the Blueray/HD situation should be solved by 2015! Buy one then. In the meantime, I will have watched hundreds of hidef movies with great sound.

Buy a PS3 and enjoy the quality now.

Just watched Close Encounters Of The Third Kind on Blueray. Great sound.

Yep, there are a number of factors here:

Cost of HD discs;
Your approach to having defunct software (I have a number of SA discs);
The advantage on offer, I don't find my SD picture and sound shabby;
Is it inevitable that either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray will win?

Could be that you've just invested in the modern version of Betamax, or is that MiniDisc, or is that SACD, or ....SONY are good at inventing formats - after all, that is where the licensing income comes from.

Blu Ray discs are region encoded; HD aren't if that is important to you.

If you look at the number of studios that support either format (there are some that support both, but not many) blu-ray apears to be winning and the amount of discs comin out also appears to bear this out but its far from conclusive at this point.

Ryan

quote:

Originally posted by count.d:
Yes, the Blueray/HD situation should be solved by 2015! Buy one then. In the meantime, I will have watched hundreds of hidef movies with great sound.

Buy a PS3 and enjoy the quality now.

Just watched Close Encounters Of The Third Kind on Blueray. Great sound.

My son brought over his PS3 just before Christmas & I was blown away by the picture quality.

The only reason I'm not getting a HD player of whatever flavour at the moment is because I want to take advantage of the new HD sound formats in 7.1.

Current best option is to use my computer - there's an LG dual-format drive available for less than £150. I'm just researching sound cards & It's a bit of a steep learning curve!

I've always been a bit of an early adopter & so far haven't regretted any of it. As the saying goes, you could be dead tomorrow!

The way this is going surely the best thing might be to use a well specified PC as a media device and modify as appropriate.

Highly expensive dedicated machines seem a nonsense to me, especially given the quality that really can come in video playback from all formats on a well set up PC.

Keep music discrete and separate in my view.

ATB from George

im baffled , here we are with naim systems running to thousands and even tens of thousands , and some people wont spend £300 tops to enjoy what their hd ready panels are made for .
ffs just buy one the discs are available from £10 to £25 online ( hardlys breaking the bank )and i cant see them going the way of betamax.

tony
how are you going to get the audio from pc into your naim n/sats ect

neil

HD-DVD player ... £180

Blu-ray player ... £250

Being able to watch films on any damn format you like ... priceless

nap-ster, if you look on the movietyme site there is a list of blue-ray that are not region encoded, it looks like most of them play on reg 2 players ?

quote:

tony
how are you going to get the audio from pc into your naim n/sats ect

neil

Hi Neil. That's the tricky bit at the moment!

I'm trying to locate a sound-card with 7.1 analogue outputs that I can then feed into the analogue inputs on my AV2. There are two significant difficulties at the moment :-
1. There doesn't appear to be a card available that is capable of decoding the latest HD sound formats to 7.1 analogue outs.
2. My computer sits at the back of the room & I'd need a 15M cable run!

quote:

The way this is going surely the best thing might be to use a well specified PC as a media device and modify as appropriate.

Highly expensive dedicated machines seem a nonsense to me, especially given the quality that really can come in video playback from all formats on a well set up PC.

Keep music discrete and separate in my view.

On the face of things, this makes sense. However, after reading various relevant forums over the last few days it's clear that there are significant problems in getting PCs to work properly with HD DVD. There are lots of bugs with hardware and various software incompatibilities.

In the spirit of Alan's posting I've now decided to go out & get a player - Panasonic's blu-Ray seems to fit the bill - & not mess about any more for the time being.

So much to watch, so little time!

quote:

Originally posted by john R1:
nap-ster, if you look on the movietyme site there is a list of blue-ray that are not region encoded, it looks like most of them play on reg 2 players ?

Thanks for that information I stand corrected! So much for the blurb the two different sides are putting out then.

heres an upto date one and maintained

http://bluray.liesinc.net

neil

allan
do you still have the sim2 and was your ep35 £180

Hi Neil,

Yes on the SIM2; I have a SIM2 D80 here now. Managed to put about 70 hours on the bulb over the christmas holidays

I think I paid about £240 for my EP-35 (including seven free HD-DVDs) but HD-E1s, EP-10's, EP-30s can all be picked up for around £180. Here's a link to an EP10 for £149.98

Toshiba EP-10 at Currys

Allan

Hi there,

Haven't really joined in too much as I'm still working out what I think on all the new formats.

I bought a Toshiba EP35 HD-DVD player just before Xmas and have been playing around with it a bit. I've got it connected up to my Panasonic plasmas and then over the 5.1 analog outputs into my AV2.

Got to say, not blown away by it. Picture is good, but the DVD5 picture is seriously good and not far off it. For audio, still having difficulties setting the analog levels correctly. Definately far more the Toshiba's fault than the AV2. It's very pernickity to setup on the analog outputs.

Over the digital optical output, it is very good.

Need to spend more time with it to see what I really think, but current feeling is that it's something to play with for a while.

I think if I could get the scaler for the DVD5, I probably would as the HD-DVD player is clearly showing how good the DVD5 is.

Roy.

Hi Roy,

Comparing a DVD5 to HD-DVD or Blu-ray is like taking a knife to a gun fight. What size/resolution screen are you using?

Allan

Allan,

It's a Panasonic TH-37PX70, pixel resolution is 1024x720, so 720p max resolution.

I know I'm not getting the most out of the HD disc, another reason why I'm not posting too much on how I'm finding things.

Thinking I may take my DVD5 along to a friend who has a 40inch Sony and a projector, with a HD and Blu Ray player to have a look at it there.

Setting the sound up is still a right pain though. Going to have another go at it later on to see if I can get it any better matched.

Roy.

quote:

Got to say, not blown away by it. Picture is good, but the DVD5 picture is seriously good and not far off it..............
Over the digital optical output, it is very good.

Hi Roy,

I am having trouble interpreting your comment.

I have concluded that you are actually saying that PICTUREWISE the Toshiba with HD disc (at £250) is better than the DVD5 with SD disc (at £2,500) but that a future Naim Scaler (at say £1,500) might close the gap.

This is not one of my sarcastic comments, I am seeking genuine clarity of your experience, in order to help me make a buying decision. I would be genuinely grateful if you could confirm/clarify.

However, I am also interested in the SOUND quality of the Toshiba (or a Blu-Ray player) compared with the DVD5. You don't appear to make any comment on the quality of the sound, just the fact that you don't seem able to get the sound pressure levels right.

I have put off buying any new a/v kit because of the lack of clear information and because prices seem to be rapidly tumbling as picture quality improves. However, I am comming under presure to buy some sort of HiDef dvd player and HiRes plasma (and projector). I was planning to hold off until the Bristol Show before making a decision.

Cheers

Don

Hi Kevin,

On the basis of this thread the answers to your questions MIGHT be:

Does anyone know which of the new high definition formats are winning out in the market place?
No.

What have you all committed to?
From Luddites like me who won't move until the market shakes itself out, through supporters of one specific solution, to buy both.

Has Naim actually committed to a format as yet?
Personally I don't think Naim will make any HiDef move until there is a long term winner. For a small company to make a major investment for a short-lived product is dangerous - has the n-Vi been successful enough in terms of ROI?

It might be that NaimNet could be extended to cover HiDef serving duties - regardless of the carrying media.

Are you any clearer on what you'll do?

M

tony

heres one for ya

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000W4B7DS/300...21/?m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

this will take full advantage of your 7.1 inputs , and with 7 free discs its works out about £150

allan

i know you will have done the reasearch , whats the difference between ep30 / ep35

neil

quote:

Hi Roy,

I am having trouble interpreting your comment.

I have concluded that you are actually saying that PICTUREWISE the Toshiba with HD disc (at £250) is better than the DVD5 with SD disc (at £2,500) but that a future Naim Scaler (at say £1,500) might close the gap.

Correct. Picturewise, the HD-DVD at £250 is better than the DVD5. However, it's not massively better. But do remember my display is a limiting factor in comparison as DVD5 is outputting 576p and HD-DVD is in reality (due to my display alone) displaying 720p. I would be interested to see the comparison on a 1080p24fps larger display.

A Naim scaler (at say sub £500) would be interesting to add on. The price point of the scaler to me is a massive factor in Naim selling a lot of them, or people going and buying a HD player or 4 instead.

quote:

This is not one of my sarcastic comments, I am seeking genuine clarity of your experience, in order to help me make a buying decision. I would be genuinely grateful if you could confirm/clarify.

No problems. Remember, I bought this HD-DVD player at £250 quid as I thought it's at a price point I view as disposable.

quote:

However, I am also interested in the SOUND quality of the Toshiba (or a Blu-Ray player) compared with the DVD5. You don't appear to make any comment on the quality of the sound, just the fact that you don't seem able to get the sound pressure levels right.

Yes, reluctant to comment too much on sound as setting up the Toshiba players for 5.1 analog output is not regarded as easy, there are a number of settings on the Toshiba alone to get right. Also, the way it outputs it's LFE channel means you need to adjust the volume levels in your processor and not the HD-DVD player. So, there are quite a few interactions to get right.

Also, the AV2 only has one set of volume level adjustments, so you are unable to adjust the analog Multi-in levels independantly of the digital inputs (as shame really).

I feel I'm getting closer now, and the Dolby TrueHD sound track on 300 is *Very* good. Definately better than the DVD5 on SD material (I have 300 on HD and SD so can compare).

quote:

I have put off buying any new a/v kit because of the lack of clear information and because prices seem to be rapidly tumbling as picture quality improves. However, I am comming under presure to buy some sort of HiDef dvd player and HiRes plasma (and projector). I was planning to hold off until the Bristol Show before making a decision.

As I said, I'm just mucking about a bit, as I don't know which'll win out, HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. At 200-250 for a player I bought one to have a look at it and see what some of the future options look like.

Now, the future may not be either of these, as with them fighting it out for a couple of years, the future may just skip them altogether and move to direct HD digital downloads (you can download 300 in HD on the xbox360 to rent today).

I think Naim's got it right moving into the install/multi-room audio, digital audio format market just now. They can make a good market there and I think the NaimNet stuff looks seriously good.

If they were to bring out a HD/Blu player etc, could just burn money...

Roy

quote:

Originally posted by neil w:
allan

i know you will have done the reasearch , whats the difference between ep30 / ep35

neil

Primary difference is that the EP35 has 5.1 analog audio outputs and the decoders to decode the HD formats to send out over analog.

EP30 has no analog outputs.

Also, does some HDMI deep colour stuff too I think.

Roy.

The EP35 can also send Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio, etc. as bitstream for decoding in an external processor. Not that I have a suitable processor at the moment, but probably will one day.

Neil, if you are thinking of replacing your XA1, have a serious think about the XE1. It does everything the EP35 will do but has serious build quality inside and out. The heavy, solid charcoal gray anodised aluminium case (and brushed metal backlit remote) is easily equal to a naim 5 series case. The EP35's still have some issues to be worked out with firmware updates but the XE1 is pretty solid now. I think the XE1 can be bought now for around £380. Oh, and if you're not using an external scaler, the XE1 contains a REON video processor for scaling SD-DVD.

Allan