Upgrading an LP12

Forgot to add: if I sell some of the various bits of kit that I have, I'd allocate more toward the cartridge - so if you think I should hold fire on the cartridge front for a bit (so that I can get a better one) please say.

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

OK TC

In true Forum style, here is another suggestion

1. 2nd hand Lingo 1, around £350-£400
2. Cirkus, £300-£350
3. MC cartridge, £750-£1150 depending on spend on the above

The Lingo 2 is better than the original, but this is a plan to a budget.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and happy

TC

Just read the bit about spending more on the cartridge - the Akiva is expensive (£1800 or so ) but stunning. From what I gather it works OK in an Aro, even though it is optimised for the Ekos.

Regards

Mike

On the Yellow Brick Road and happy

Secondhand is an option I hadn't considered. Obviously, a s/h cartridge can be a bit risky, so I've discounted that unless it's so cheap as to be worth rebuilding. The s/h Lingo thing would be another option worth considering, though I can't help feeling a deep sense of irony about the whole thing...

After all, my previous deck was a: LP12/Lingo/Aro...



I've shortlisted the Lingo2 over a s/h Lingo (1) purely because I'm budgeting for new, and so far I haven't found a s/h Lingo. If one turns up then I would of course be interested, but right now I haven't looked all that hard. A s/h Armageddon would be another possibility but I'm not paying top dollar - if a Lingo can be had for £300 (1/3 new, roughly) then surely I should be able to pick up an Armageddon for roughly £250-300?

In terms of new purchases, I'm leaning a bit toward the Armageddon, because I like the idea of having a Naimed LP12 this time round.

I have a friend who knows Ivor personally who might be able to get me a discount on the Linn kit should I go down that route, but I'm not counting on that - after all, how many times have these sorts of promises failed to materialise...

Any suggestions for cartridges which would be cheaper than an Akiva and mate well with an Aro in the £400-700 new price bracket?

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

I upgraded my LP12 to great effect by changing it for a Well Tempered.

Alex

TC,
Infidelity are listing a s-hand Lingo on their site http://www.infidelity.co.uk/altsalesf.htm for £350 and that may include some form of dealer warranty. PSU-wise you could also consider the TAPS from the company in Chesterfield that dare not speak it's naim (on this site anyway ), it's only £242 so a barely visible dent in the budget and they're available on no-risk SOR basis

David

quote:

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I upgraded my LP12 to great effect by changing it for a Well Tempered.

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Nah, not convinced Remember, I've been down the 'alternative deck' route and I'm back with an LP12. Though this wasn't entirely my choice, I hasten to add, but things these days are done by consensus, and she likes the Linn...who am I to argue?

David, thanks for that. I'll run it past the boss and see what she wants. If she's willing to forgo easy 45 replay I might just go for the Armageddon, which is reputed to be a better match for the Aro.

Has anyone tried LP12/Lingo2/Aro? How does it fare versus the fully Naimed version?

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Top Cat

FWIW, I had a Cirkus upgrade fitted in my Valhalla LP12 about 6 years ago. It made a difference, but I'm not sure if it was worth the £300 it cost.

Personally, I would buy a Lingo 2 and use the rest of your budget on a good cart for the Aro, and leave the Cirkus until later.

Kevin

TC I'm not here to convince you. Have you auditioned a WT on your alternative travels? - To my ears it does all the LP12 does, no losses, but better. The Clearaudio you had is a completely different kettle of parallel tracking. FWIW the LP12 I dumped was as you describe: Lingo/Aro. I liked it a lot as far as LP12s go.

Alex

From what I've heard too, the Cirkus can be an acquired taste and not everybody acquires it. Feelings about it seem to be very mixed. It (allegedly) changes the LP12 presentation in a major way - I've even heard the term 'CD-like' applied to it

David

John, give STEREO STEREO in Glasgow a call about a s/h LINGO,i'm using an original one and it's a great improvement over the VALHALLA i used to use.
cartridges....i've heard the AKIVA but the price is frightening!...my Dynavector dv17d KARAT will do me fine thanks!.
dennis

quote:

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
Secondhand is an option I hadn't considered. Obviously, a s/h cartridge can be a bit risky, so I've discounted that unless it's so cheap as to be worth rebuilding. The s/h Lingo thing would be another option worth considering, though I can't help feeling a deep sense of irony about the whole thing...

After all, my previous deck was a: LP12/Lingo/Aro...



I've shortlisted the Lingo2 over a s/h Lingo (1) purely because I'm budgeting for new, and so far I haven't found a s/h Lingo. If one turns up then I would of course be interested, but right now I haven't looked all that hard. A s/h Armageddon would be another possibility but I'm not paying top dollar - if a Lingo can be had for £300 (1/3 new, roughly) then surely I should be able to pick up an Armageddon for roughly £250-300?

In terms of new purchases, I'm leaning a bit toward the Armageddon, because I like the idea of having a Naimed LP12 this time round.

I have a friend who knows Ivor personally who might be able to get me a discount on the Linn kit should I go down that route, but I'm not counting on that - after all, how many times have these sorts of promises failed to materialise...

Any suggestions for cartridges which would be cheaper than an Akiva and mate well with an Aro in the £400-700 new price bracket?

John

_TC '..'_
"_Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..._"

---

OK, folks, I'm on the verge of ordering a current spec Lingo (3?) or an Armageddon.

Forgetting for a second about 45rpm (as I believe adaptors are available for that) which one would be best with my proposed turntable of:

LP12/Cirkus(maybe)/Aro/DV or Lyra cart

Again, I once had a mark I Lingo so I fancy a change from that (does that seem unreasonable?) so though I am aware that the budget would go further, I'm prepared to buy the RIGHT power supply now, and compromise on the cartridge and then replace that a few years hence...

For Alex, who spake thusly:

quote:

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Have you auditioned a WT on your alternative travels?

---

No, Alex, that's one that has escaped me - never even seen one. I'd love to claim to have been exhaustive in my search, but I'm quite content to max the LP12, in the knowledge that it is a familiar deck and well-known. My other half and I have talked this through and we're looking at this deck as the 'final' deck (which I thought the Clearaudio would have been) and so servicability and longevity, parts availability and suchlike all play a significant part in the decision. Plus the fact that I've just bought it, so I don't want to pass it on again...

I had a fleeting chance of a 40% discount on new Linn kit, but that has evaporated, which is a real pity as I could have had Akiva and Lingo for £1500ish... damn!

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

What I mean to say is which of the current Lingo versus the Armageddon sounds the best - I'm willing to trade a little bass depth for fluidity and a natural, detailed sound. Of course, the PRaT I take for granted and I'm sure neither PSU will disappoint. ALso, much of my early vinyl is less than perfect so a PSU/Cart combo which is kind of less-than-perfect vinyl would be great too...

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Cirkus upgrade - I did this years and years ago so it's a bit hazy but makes the deck more neutral, removes SOME of the mid bass bloom associated with the LP12 (some people think it removes some of the groove factor, I don't). If you current bearing is AOk then maybe you could do without, but £300 in the context of this system aint a great deal.

I love the Lyra Lydian (I have it on Ittock) but can't comment on it's compatability with Aro.

I would recommend the Cirkus upgrade too - had this done a couple of years back and I found it tightened up the presentation and for me it retains the "goove factor". IMO it is a good value upgrade.

Regards

Mike

Arghhhh,....!!!! I'm getting no closer.

Has anyone done a Lingo2/Armageddon demo - it's going to be totally impractical to attempt to do this demo and it's the only major stumbling block facing me now?

On 33rpm*, with an Aro arm, which is going to sound best?

John

* for 45rpm, I'll get one of those adaptors, if they're readily available - are they?

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

John

I had a similar dilemma almost a year ago. I found it impossible to get an A/B dem involving Lingo2 but I did have a blind shootout with the earlier version. Both supplies offer greatly improved performance over the Valhalla and I enjoyed both but for me the Geddon was conclusively my preference. Given my general preference for the Naim approach to making the LP12 a superdeck I figured that even if the Lingo2 was a lot better it wasn't worth worrying about.

If you like the ARO rather than the Ekos I think there's a better than average chance that the Cirkus is for you as well.

Regards
Steve

Getting closer, really...

Actually, I tried calling RR in Montrose to order my Armageddon+Cirkus, but no answer. So more time to deliberate and wonder whether I'm making the right choice.

Quickie question: what happens to the little LED switch if I go for a 'Geddon - do I have to go back to an ugly old rocker switch again?

Also: where to get the 33->45rpm adaptor? Or is it something that Linn still make?

If I go for the 'Geddon, all I'll need to get then is a cartridge. Basically, an Akiva is out (too expensive) and the range of compatible cartridges seems quite short, given the Aro's relative obstinance with regard to mounting geometry (matron!).

So, it's Lyra something or Dynavector something.

I'm sure you don't want to enter into my mind, really, but just in case anyone is interested my current frame of mind goes something like: "if I buy a £500 cartridge will I subsequently regret not plumping for a better one?" and "if I buy a £1000 cartridge, am I a chump with more money than sense*?" (behave, you at the back!)

The budget is moderately flexible, and 'Geddon+Cirkus takes me to a bit over £1000 (allowing £150-ish flogging off things like the old bearing (which is in a v.good order), springs, the Valhalla (again, v.good), etc.

Which leave me approximately £500 under the current budget for a cart. But should I spend more? That's the question...

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

TC,

With a Geddon, the LP12's switch is replaced by a plastic cover with a Naim Audio logo on it. Quite neat, and the power is switched on/off from the Geddon.

Dynavector cartridges are a great match for the Aro, as is the Linn Arkiv (as exemplified by Dev's LP12).

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Linn Binn Sinner

TC,

From the way you're talking, you've still not compared the Lingo 2 with a 'Geddon but somehow decided upon the latter.

I have compared them and they are sufficiently different for you to have a strong preference either way. Personally, while I would be happy with an Aro or Ekos, I much prefer the Lingo 2 to a Geddon.

If this is the "last deck" as you say, you really do need to audition the options.

Dave

John--

I'd suggest Armageddon and a Lyra Helikon SL. A friend who is (very) familiar with both the Geddon and the Lingo2 says the Lingo2 improves on the Lingo1 but still does not equal the Geddon at what it does best.

Best,

Bob

quote:

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I'd suggest Armageddon and a Lyra Helikon SL

---

Funnily enough, that's the way I'm now thinking, having read quite a lot about the combination.

I am almost completely certain that this route is what I'll take- sure, it's over budget, but I think I should be able to get 2000 hours+ out of a cartridge if it's setup correctly and used carefully on clean vinyl, which means that the cost doesn't seem so bad spread over the two or three years I'd guess it would take to run up that kind of hourage.

Two further questions:

(1) Is the Helikon SL kind to less-than-perfect vinyl - not necessarily dirty vinyl, but vinyl that's older and a bit worn - average s/h, for instance. By 'kind' I mean 'capable of bringing out the best in'...

(2) The low output of the SL is the only stumbling block. The spec for my current preamp's MC boards (not Naim, btw) are as follows:

MC Sensitivity: 0.7mV
MC Loading: 1k-ohm
MC Capacitance: 6.8nF
MC S/N: >=70dB
Preamp Max O/P: +-19V

...that's all I can find out right now. Can anyone knowledgable about such things advise as to whether the SL would mate well with MC boards of this spec?

Lastly, how much *is* the SL?

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Update: after a fair amount of deliberation, and taking into account some dealer advice (from none other than the infamous Robert Ritchie himself) I am going to plump for:

Armageddon (new style)
Cirkus
Helikon Standard

...ouch! Pricy, but I'm sure it'll be a nicy!

So, I've finally bought my first piece of new Naim equipment, after 1600+ posts...

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

's funny, 'cause Robert Ritchie has actually told me the exact opposite of that. I had a Cirkus on my last LP12 and thought the bass was lovely and controlled, extended and realistic. However, I always had the Cirkus on that deck so never got to know the deck without it.

I do have full-range speakers, incidentally.

Can I ask why this should be the case?

John

TC '..'
"Girl, you thought he was a man, but he was a Muffin..."

Hi TC,

Sounds like you will have a nice setup. Hang on to your Old bearing, subchassis, inner platter and store them properly. It's nice to have a good spare and you may want to go back to that combo some time down the road.

Regards,
John