n-vi ( in stock )
Posted by: john R1 on 01 May 2006
browsing on the internet, see a naim dealer stating n-vi in stock, i presume these must be old stock, i would have thought with all the problems i have read about on the forums they would have been re-called until all the problems had been sorted out ?
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by Richard AV
Perhaps they mean they have a demonstration unit in stock?
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by john R1
thats not the way it reads richard, also i did not realise you could buy naim equipment by mail order, ?
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by john R1
munch am i allowed to mention the retailer on the forums,
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by john R1
munch, if you lookback at some earlier threads not all dealers are willing to set them up, mine said he would only set it up if every thing was ready to plug straight in to the n-vi, some dealers are better than others,
Posted on: 01 May 2006 by JohnS
My dealer was awesome, arrived with a big toolbox suitable for a F1 pit crew, and, using my existing NAC-A5, created the speaker cables on the spot. Then we measured the speaker distances to set up those parameters and he used a sound pressure meter to measure (and equalize) individual speaker volume levels. He was there for 3-4 hours.
Of course you'll have to come out to California if you want that treatment
Of course you'll have to come out to California if you want that treatment
Posted on: 02 May 2006 by john R1
munch, there is only one other naim dealer in my area, whos to say he is any better, have been using the same dealer on and off for around 25 years, when i was into naim hi fi, sad to say i no longer have it, so now only use this dealer if i am buying certain brands ie naim etc,
Posted on: 05 May 2006 by john R1
cheers for that munch, i knew that would happen due to go on holiday on the 19th, come back on the 29th so hopefully get mine then,
Posted on: 13 May 2006 by john R1
let me know your thoughts on it munch before next friday cheers john
Posted on: 14 May 2006 by john R1
cheers munch, what display are you using and how is it connected, i did not bother with the dab as i have read that the stations in this country use such a low bit-rate signal that at the moment its not worth having, wait for your next update, also what speakers are you using john,
Posted on: 14 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
Munch,
Do you have Sky connected to your n-vi?
Duncan
Do you have Sky connected to your n-vi?
Duncan
Posted on: 15 May 2006 by nap-ster
I take you mean Sky audio off the optical connection?
Posted on: 15 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
quote:Originally posted by nap-ster:
I take you mean Sky audio off the optical connection?
Yup. Just want to know if the teething problems I've seen on this input are solved in the current boxes.
Duncan
Posted on: 15 May 2006 by AV@naim
quote:Originally posted by Duncan Fullerton:quote:Originally posted by nap-ster:
I take you mean Sky audio off the optical connection?
Yup. Just want to know if the teething problems I've seen on this input are solved in the current boxes.
Duncan
If you refering to audio being delayed from video on sky boxes. to correct this:-
would either require a video delay to allow the audio stream to catch up (not what the n-Vi does).
OR
putting the audio in a time-warp and forwarding in to the future (sadly not possible).
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by john R1
av@naim, it states in the manual it has a lip-sync feature what is that for then ? the way it reads it should compensate for video/audio delay problems
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
*
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
John,
The lip sync feature is for micro adjustments on the DVD.
Duncan
The lip sync feature is for micro adjustments on the DVD.
Duncan
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
quote:Originally posted by Duncan Fullerton:quote:
If you are referring to audio being delayed from video on sky boxes. To correct this:-
would either require a video delay to allow the audio stream to catch up (not what the n-Vi does).
OR
putting the audio in a time-warp and forwarding in to the future (sadly not possible).
I’m confused. This is the original party line I was given when I first reported the fault. Since that time, in conversations with both my dealer and Adam, I’ve been given to understand that Naim accept the fault and will rectify it.
As far as I am concerned it has bugger all to do with time shifting video or audio, but with designing the box properly so that it does not introduce a delay. Asking the question on other forums I’ve found plenty of people who do not experience a delay on their Sky+ digital optical output through their DSP processors.
Two questions:
1) Is this the official Naim stance that the problem is with Sky+ and not the n-vi? If not, is this now fixed in the replacement box my dealer tells me to expect later this week?
2) Have Naim actually tried an optical out from Sky+ via an n-vi and then via a cheap DSP? No? I have, and guess what? The latter works!
Given that potential customers for the n-vi will read this forum, and if Naim insist that the problem lies with Sky+, then Naim should be up front and warn them that Sky+ and the n-vi will not work together. I.e. if Sky+/HD/other TV source with a digital optical output is your bag then look elsewhere than an n-vi.
Duncan
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by john R1
duncan, the more i read about the n-vi the worse it seems to get, was hoping to use my telewest tv drive via optical into the n-vi, who knows might have the same problem, have sent an e-mail to naim regarding this issue, i await there reply to see if i need to cancel my order before i even get my n-vi, as i stated in my e-mail something that cost £3000 that you can't even watch digital tv through is in my mind taking the piss, at the moment using denon 3805 no problems with lip-sync issues whatever is feed into it, and the dsp modes work with analogue inputs,
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by jasons
Sky itself has always had lipsync issues.
Unfortunately, as stated, there isnt anything that can be done as its the wrong way round for correction.
Also, the more revealing and detailed the equipment is that the audio is being passe through, the more noticeable it is.
I had a long discussion about this with Chord when i had an av set up.
Unfortunately, as stated, there isnt anything that can be done as its the wrong way round for correction.
Also, the more revealing and detailed the equipment is that the audio is being passe through, the more noticeable it is.
I had a long discussion about this with Chord when i had an av set up.
Posted on: 17 May 2006 by David Dever
...and it's not just a Sky problem–I've pointed this out before, but you may notice differences from channel to channel, program to program, all from the same provider (e.g., Comcast in the States), exclusive of cable/satellite box hardware-induced delays.
The issue is largely a newer manifestation of the old AV chestnut of audio / video synchronization. Content providers use different systems, and there's no way (period) to insure that the signals will EVER be synchronized without a major re-think about digital media encoding in general, sorry.
At least with a DVD player, you have one source with a known RANGE of delays (depending on decoding format) between the video and audio streams.
The issue is largely a newer manifestation of the old AV chestnut of audio / video synchronization. Content providers use different systems, and there's no way (period) to insure that the signals will EVER be synchronized without a major re-think about digital media encoding in general, sorry.
At least with a DVD player, you have one source with a known RANGE of delays (depending on decoding format) between the video and audio streams.
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
Maybe the issue here is one of the degree of the delay.
As I say I've not been able to reproduce this via other DSP/digital combinations nor, trawling various BB's, have I found others who could. If however there is an intrisic delay in some digital broadcasts then that delay must be of the order of a few milliseconds and not noticable to most people.
I see a delay of 250ms - a quarter of a second - noticable to anyone who can see. Read this paragraph aloud and figure out how many words per second you speak. Now think about delaying the sound by 250ms.
How do I know it's 250ms? Call me a saddo but in trying to figure out a way to quantify it early on I thought of Countdown on Ch 4. The clock music lasts 30 seconds and has near enough 60 beats, i.e 500ms. When I listened with both the n-vi and my TV's speakers I got double the number of beats evenly spaced, i.e. 250ms.
Now this is such a gross error that I cannot believe no-one using Sky has pointed this out if this is their fault. This is why I believe it is a time delay introduced in digital optical input the n-vi. This is what I thought Naim had acknowledged and were addressing.
Duncan
As I say I've not been able to reproduce this via other DSP/digital combinations nor, trawling various BB's, have I found others who could. If however there is an intrisic delay in some digital broadcasts then that delay must be of the order of a few milliseconds and not noticable to most people.
I see a delay of 250ms - a quarter of a second - noticable to anyone who can see. Read this paragraph aloud and figure out how many words per second you speak. Now think about delaying the sound by 250ms.
How do I know it's 250ms? Call me a saddo but in trying to figure out a way to quantify it early on I thought of Countdown on Ch 4. The clock music lasts 30 seconds and has near enough 60 beats, i.e 500ms. When I listened with both the n-vi and my TV's speakers I got double the number of beats evenly spaced, i.e. 250ms.
Now this is such a gross error that I cannot believe no-one using Sky has pointed this out if this is their fault. This is why I believe it is a time delay introduced in digital optical input the n-vi. This is what I thought Naim had acknowledged and were addressing.
Duncan
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
John
Re: cancelling your order ...
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
Duncan
Re: cancelling your order ...
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
Duncan
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by 110dB
Lip-sync on SKY.
I’ve Sky and I find lip sync problems sometimes, it is down to my Panasonic SKY box, not my Naim kit. To fix it I re-boot the skybox, then it’s ok for a few months.
Also; if you are using SKY into an n-Vi you have to ensure the sample rate is correct. SKY transmits at 48kHz and should send that info in the SPDIF data. On some models they do not! The n-Vi then assumes it is 44.1kHz and the audio will sound out of sync, slow and glitches! If it sounds ok it is not that, but if it is this is how you change it. Select your SKY input, Press and hold ‘angle’ on the n-Vi remote, a service menu will appear, select PCM Freq, change the relevant input from AUTO to 48kHz.
If it is none of the above, do this test.
Connect both the analogue and digital outputs from your skybox to the n-Vi.
Switch between the two on the n-Vi. If the delay on the analogue and digital signals is the same, i.e. the analogue has the same problem we know conclusively that it is exclusively the skybox at fault, as the analogue signal will travel roughly at the sound of light! If the lip-sync is worse on digital it needs more investigation.
But remember if the audio is delayed from the skybox, no audio decoder can fix that!
I’ve Sky and I find lip sync problems sometimes, it is down to my Panasonic SKY box, not my Naim kit. To fix it I re-boot the skybox, then it’s ok for a few months.
Also; if you are using SKY into an n-Vi you have to ensure the sample rate is correct. SKY transmits at 48kHz and should send that info in the SPDIF data. On some models they do not! The n-Vi then assumes it is 44.1kHz and the audio will sound out of sync, slow and glitches! If it sounds ok it is not that, but if it is this is how you change it. Select your SKY input, Press and hold ‘angle’ on the n-Vi remote, a service menu will appear, select PCM Freq, change the relevant input from AUTO to 48kHz.
If it is none of the above, do this test.
Connect both the analogue and digital outputs from your skybox to the n-Vi.
Switch between the two on the n-Vi. If the delay on the analogue and digital signals is the same, i.e. the analogue has the same problem we know conclusively that it is exclusively the skybox at fault, as the analogue signal will travel roughly at the sound of light! If the lip-sync is worse on digital it needs more investigation.
But remember if the audio is delayed from the skybox, no audio decoder can fix that!
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by john R1
there is a very slight lyp-sync issue with telewest which is acceptable to me, its if the n-vi makes it worse which bothers me ? i dont know if there is a delay with sky in general terms compared with analogue or even freeview receivers, there has always been a delay with telewest compared to the other two,sometimes as much as 2 seconds behind the portable analogue tv
Posted on: 18 May 2006 by Duncan Fullerton
110dB,
Thanks for your reply.
Do you see lip sync delays approaching 250ms with your Sky? I've just deep re-booted (power cable out) the Sky box (Pace Sky+). The problem is still there.
I checked the Angle menu. I can see a "Status" submenu with "PCM - A0/1/2/34" numbers and a few others. In the "Settings" submenu there is nothing that looks like a PCM frequency. Are you coming from an AV2 POV? Not sure I need this as apart from the delay the sounds is fine.
Unfortunately you can't plug Sky into the n-vi on its analogue inputs as there are no A to D converters on those inputs (unlike the AV2). I.e. you cannot apply DSP modes to n-vi's analogue inputs. Hence why I am keen to resolve this issue on the digital optical input - it is my only option, and the only option for anyone with an external TV box who wants to DSP the output via an n-vi.
As an aside, I just switched to an analogue input (A1, my LP12) to confirm there is no DSP on it. When I switched back to D1 (Sky+) there was no sound. Needed a back panel reboot. I have to do this three or four times a night. You may see where my frustrations are coming from …
Duncan
Thanks for your reply.
Do you see lip sync delays approaching 250ms with your Sky? I've just deep re-booted (power cable out) the Sky box (Pace Sky+). The problem is still there.
I checked the Angle menu. I can see a "Status" submenu with "PCM - A0/1/2/34" numbers and a few others. In the "Settings" submenu there is nothing that looks like a PCM frequency. Are you coming from an AV2 POV? Not sure I need this as apart from the delay the sounds is fine.
Unfortunately you can't plug Sky into the n-vi on its analogue inputs as there are no A to D converters on those inputs (unlike the AV2). I.e. you cannot apply DSP modes to n-vi's analogue inputs. Hence why I am keen to resolve this issue on the digital optical input - it is my only option, and the only option for anyone with an external TV box who wants to DSP the output via an n-vi.
As an aside, I just switched to an analogue input (A1, my LP12) to confirm there is no DSP on it. When I switched back to D1 (Sky+) there was no sound. Needed a back panel reboot. I have to do this three or four times a night. You may see where my frustrations are coming from …
Duncan