Let's talk about Power Bars

Cascade wiring is diminishing the impact between components hooked up in the same power bar to affect each other's current draw. They have all the same source, and get the same chance to get their juice.

You don't get that with a standard parallel wiring... well, if wiring it is! Because it's most of the time a metal rod that goes from a contact to another...

Bye.

I saw the term 'cascade wiring' on Cablepro's website and didn't find it self explanatory. It sounded like daisychaining if anything. Your description is what many would call 'star wiring'.

Two other possible reasons for an improvement might be:
Fewer connections/discontinuities in the mains current path giving a lower resistance and ac impedance.
Neutral and ground are more nearly the same across all boxes, so that smaller noise currents flow between them.

David

Both the Wiremold, as well as the Noisetrapper NANA manufactured by CablePro, use cascade parallel wiring for the hot and neutral conductors, which, ultimately, places a small length of solid-core wire between each successive outlet.

The Wiremold also has cascaded grounding; the CablePro uses star earthing.

David,

Thanks for being open with the details of the Cablepro. I would have thought Star wiring all conductors to sound better, but I guess not.

Cascading gives rise to the question of the order in which various boxes are attached, relative to the input cable. There is an argument for connecting the heaviest current drawer (power amp?) nearest. Its hard to say in this area whether the result will be a) undetectable or b) uot of all proportion to expectations.

David

25 years ago, when I discovered and purchased the unfused Wiremold at a local hardward store near the audio shop I was working at (a Naim dealer), I automatically put the amp closest to the power input. It was logical. Some years later, I tried it elsewhere in the line, just to see what would happen, and it was very bad.

There is a very large difference in where the amp goes. I am not so sure about the other components-my sense from some trials is that it does not matter nearly as much. Using the order of the system, with amp first and source last, has been standard procedure.

In the case of the larger amps like the 500, there may be some advantage to plugging it into the wall, as long as the socket you use is the one that receives power first, then plug the Cablepro strip into the next socket in line. This is what I do at home. The 300 that runs the tweeters is into the strip, as it does not draw much power. At very low volumes, the 500 would have better timing if plugged into the strip, but this advantage is lost at higher volumes.

The magnitude of the benefit of putting the amp near the input, and the harm of not doing so, is a sign that cascade probably has electrical advantages over the parallel system, if used properly. It certainly has proven to be so in listening tests.

Until the NANA Cablepro, no strip had the timing and harmonic integrity of the Wiremold, though the Wiremold has a tendency towards edginess. The Cablepro is probably close to as good as a powerbar can get. We have compared it to a lot of very expensive, fancy things. These demos are usually very short and easy. Ted at Cablepro put up with a lot of strange requests from us, as our wishes regarding Naim were almost the opposite of the wishes of the world of inefficient, power-hungry, designs. We have all been rewarded.


chris k, nana

Before I got a Hydra I tried variations in the power pecking order. No doubt at all that power amp first was startlingly better than any other combination.

With the Hydra everything gets a share of first bite. Tidier too.

quote:

Originally posted by bazz:
Before I got a Hydra I tried variations in the power pecking order. No doubt at all that power amp first was startlingly better than any other combination.

With the Hydra everything gets a share of first bite. Tidier too.

Always thought that the item which consumes the most current should have first bite!

Everything gets first bite, sounds accordingly better.

Well, guys, here's the real reason I asked this question. When I plug in my Nait5i first in the series and the CD5x second, it sounds WORSE than the converse. Naim USA promotes plugging the amplifier in first before the cd player (and several of you have also found this advantageous by your responses so far).

WORSE means: more bass (albeit subjectively flabbier) but less resolution overall and a glare in the mids and highs. Prat might be a bit better overall, though.

It's not subtle, either. It's quite obvious.

I have been spacing the connections out, though. I'm not putting the two next to each other. I assume the Cablepro is made up of standard AC receptacles. Maybe they need to be plugged in next to each other on the same receptacle?

My assumption of why "source first" sounds better is RF. With the amp plugged in first I'm assuming the cd player is dumping it's RF into the amplifier's AC feed.

Thoughts?

Hang on while I knot the corners of my handkerchief and put on my shorts and braces (a la TF Gumby)..........

OK, I get parallel wiring and I get series wiring but cascade and star appear to be the same as parallel (???)

Keith

If you're only using two items with the Noisetrapper NANA, plugged into the outlet nearest the incoming AC feed cable, then they are equivalent, as the CablePro strip is wired in pairs (2 + 2 + 2 + 2 => AC).

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
If you're only using two items with the Noisetrapper NANA, plugged into the outlet nearest the incoming AC feed cable, then they are equivalent, as the CablePro strip is wired in pairs (2 + 2 + 2 + 2 => AC).

Bingo. Thanks. I thought that was the case. My system is down due to room decorating at the moment, hence my forum discussion. Once it comes back up again I'll give it a whirl.

There may be something about your system that favors the reverse approach. We mainly used the big stuff in our experiments. The systems were set up as perfectly as possible, so that the results couldn't be skewed by their problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Koster:
There may be something about your system that favors the reverse approach. We mainly used the big stuff in our experiments. The systems were set up as perfectly as possible, so that the results couldn't be skewed by their problems.

I suppose that's also possible. Or it may be personal listening preferences. We all have different sonic priorities, which is why it's repeatedly said, "speakers are personal."

The main issue is the glare. I'm really sensitive to high frequency anomolies, probably more so than most. Even a non-audiophile female friend of mine isn't bothered by the glare (and women are generally more sensitive to HF issues than men). While I don't mind a "bright" or "revealing" sound per se, grain, glare, etc. really bother me.

Glare is a major no no. No argument from me. Make sure you straighten the power cords if they are folded (when new).

and I thought you were talking about those funny-tasting nutrient bars you buy from the bike shops.

quote:

Originally posted by Rico:
and I thought you were talking about those funny-tasting nutrient bars you buy from the bike shops.

me too http://www.powerbar.com/