Sibelius/Colin Davis - which orchestra?

There are no bad orchestras just bad conductors

attributed to all sorts of people

Dear Milo,

I have only heard the LSO live accounts, so I am unable to compare. However, the Gramophone review of 3&7 suggested it was his finest yet (and listening to it I can well believe that - it is an extraordinary disc). The disc of 5&6 is less successful but still good as is Kullervo. Worth noting, though, that the cycle in unfinished (but I believe LSO live plan to capture 1&2 this season with 4 to follow in the future).

Your question as to which is more important - orchestra or conductor - is a tough one. I am tempted to suggest the conductor. I have felt for some time that the SCO is a very fine orchestra and this is doubtless because I have heard them so often under Mackerras. However, at a recent concert (with someone significantly less well known), I was pretty unimpressed by them. I would also not just what an amazing sound he gleaned from the ENO orchestra recently. Put another way, a great conductor can do amazing things with a not great orchestra, similarly a great orchestra under a less good conductor can be very disappointing. However, in truth, both are important. That said, in this case it is reasonably moot since both the LSO and the Boston are pretty fine.

regards, Tam

Dear Milo,

I had the earlier Boston set under Sir Colin Davis and it is splendid. I never have encountered the RCA LSO set, but have listened to some of the new LSO live set. I prefered this to the Boston set for its great sense of momentum, but I would say the Boston set is not easily criticised.

My favourite sets however are not those of Sir Colin Davis, at least in every symphony. I think you may be advised to consider the Beulah set (just re-reisued on CD from the 1950s in splendid if mono recordings from Decca) with the LSO under Anthony Collins, and also the lovely set with the Halle under Sir John Barbirolli [EMI]. In fact it is my view that if you had the Collins, the Davis live, and the Barbiroli, you would have the repertoire fairly comprehensively covered!

As a curiosity and an authentic Sibelian document you might wish to hunt out the recordings of Prof Robert Kajanus [a close musical colaborator with the composer] set down in 1930 and 1932 of the First, Second, Third, and Fifth Symphonies and also with the most powerful reading yet recorded of Tapiola, played by the LSO as well. These may be had on Koch, and if you are lucky found in a splendid EMI tramsfer on Finlandia.

Good hunting from Fredrik

PS: Don't forget the phenomanal recordings of the Second and Fifth Symphonies with the Boston Symphony Orchestra [done in the 1930s] under Serge Kowsevitsky. I think this is found on Pearl, or possibly, and preferably, Naxos now.

Tam, Fredrik

Where would we be without you?

Many thanks, Chris

my favourite (and only) sibelius:

berliner philharmoniker
herbert von karajan
FINLANDIA



it's just fantastic - the beginning of finlandia sounds like STAR WARS to me.

heavily recommended!
regards, +blackforest

sorry double post

sorry triple post

quote:

Originally posted by blackforest:
it's just fantastic - the beginning of finlandia sounds like STAR WARS to me.

I always feel, when I listen to Sibelius, that he must have heavily 'influenced' a number of film composers.

If that's the only Sibelius disc you have, I urge you too to pick up the Davis LSO Live disc of 3&7 - it really is outstanding (arguably the label's finest orchestral release).

regards, Tam

p.s. You're welcome Chris.

quote:

If that's the only Sibelius disc you have, I urge you too to pick up the Davis LSO Live disc of 3&7

thanks tam - will write that in my notebook ;!

regards, +christian

ps:

quote:

when I listen to Sibelius, that he must have heavily 'influenced' a number of film composer

it's even more the case with TCHAIKOVSKY - don't you think so.

by the way i love every french film with a bit of CHOPIN or even better SCHUBERT in it ;...

THIS one is a actually a remake of FINGERS and IS about someone wanting to become a piano player:

You may well be right about Tchaik (but I'm afraid I don't really know his music well enough - or listen to it often enough).

One of my favourite moments in Gattaca is when they're at a piano recital where the piece is supposedly unplayable unless you have been engineered to have 6 fingers, though if memory serves it is in fact a rathe nice bit of Chopin (possibly a nocturne, but it's been ages since I watched it last).

That said, some music (I'm thinking especailly of the the Mozart Requiem) can be ruined by overuse in film.

regards, Tam

I see that Ashkenazy has also done the cycle with the Philharmonia Orchestra on Decca and Presto Classical have these in their summer sale.

Would these be a good choice?

Dear Chris,

I'm afraid my experience with Ashkenazy as a conductor is extremely limited. I heard him give a pretty sound reading of Mahler 4 with the Philharmonia and I have a nice set of Mendlessohn symphonies from him but have no idea how he gets on with Sibelius.

However, I just had a glance on the Amazon website (and rather wish I hadn't - since it will likely tax my credit card) and noticed that they have the first Davis LSO cycle for just £16 (the 7 disc version with all the 'fillers').

regards, Tam

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:
I'm afraid my experience with Ashkenazy as a conductor is extremely limited.

Mine too. I know him as a pianist. I have some splendid vinyl of him playing Rachmaninov.

Searching around, he seems well regarded as a conductor too. I'm sure Fredrik will put us right.

Dear Chris,

For what it may be worth, here is what the Penguin guide has to say on the Ashkenazy cycle (in order to put the opening sentence in context, the set gets three stars and its review immediately follows that of the Davis/LSO RCA set which gets 'key recording' status):

quote:

Otherwise Ashkenazy's Sibelius cycle takes precedence. A rich and strong, consistently enjoyable cycle. Ashkenazy, by temperament brings out the expressive warmth, colour and drama of the composer rather than his Scandinavian chill, reflecting perhaps his Slavonic background. The recordings - made between 1979 and 1984 either at the Walthamstow or in the Kingsway Hall - are full and rich as well as brilliant, most of them still of demonstration quality. For those wanting a complete set, they make a most attractive alternative recommendation, although the newest cycle from Sir Colin Davis and the LSO on RCA takes pride of place.

And Gramophone here.

regards, Tam

Many thanks for that Tam

I've opted for the Davis/Boston PO set, partly because it's coupled with the Violin Concerto which I particularly like, and it's also in Presto's sale.

Thanks again to all, I do so value your inputs.

Dear Milo,

In my view that is the best starting point, at this very moment, even if I do not know what the RCA Davis LSO set is like. You have a few pointers already for further investigation when the urge comes along.

Personally I was never quite convinced by Ashkenazy, as a conductor, but that is only my view. I once heard him (with the Philharmonia) in the Second Symphony, and there was almost a breakdown in the playing in the bridge passage between the Scherzo and the Finale. The off-beats in the bass and brass went awfully haywire, and I have to say I was on the edge of my seat waiting for the big double bass entry that signals the opening of the last movement, when everything would focus again. Very stressful for me, and more so for the players I am sure. I did not care for the way it went before the slip either!

ATB from Fredrik