Tilson Thomas and Barbirolli in Mahler

Posted by: Tam on 21 April 2007



I recently picked up his disc of the 5th symphony with the San Francisco Symphony. I'd been wondering for some time if I was unfairly neglecting these, so when I happened upon this disc, I finally took the plunge. The result was more than a little disappointing. A rather long reading (though not with the compensations that, say, Bernstein's final reading has). I found it rather dull and lacklustre. The sound quality of the recording is really rather poor (I know champion recordings with awful sound, but that is when the performance outweighs the limitations, which I don't feel it does here, what's more, when the recording is old this is forgivable but in this day and age, the sort of harshness evidenced on this disc really ought to be a things of the past).

As always, I imagine there will be people who disagree with me and who like the recording, but I'm just a little curious as to how typical this reading is of the rest of the cycle - in other words, is it worth looking (or rather listening) into some of his other efforts?


I'm considering adding a few more Barbirolli discs to my collection - a number of the symphonies (for example the 3rd) are available as both BBC Legends issues (in the case of the 3rd with the Halle) or from Testament (with the BPO). Is there a particular preference?


Suggestions gratefully appreciated.


regards, Tam
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Steve S1
quote:
I'm considering adding a few more Barbirolli discs to my collection


Tam,

I assume you have the Barbirolli/Berliner Philharmoniker Mahler 9?

For all it's technical imperfections, it would be my desert island choice.

Steve
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by Tam
Not yet (but I'm guessing I ought to). Barbirolli is, for the moment, an under-represented conductor as far as my Mahler collection goes, I have only his Berlin 6th (on Testament), which has its moments (though I still haven't entirely got used to its slow start and I wish he'd used more powerful hammer blows).

regards, Tam
Posted on: 21 April 2007 by KenM
Barbirolli's 5th is absolutely essential listening. You may not like it, but I think it's a perfectly valid view. Otherwise, Bernstein/VPO.

Regards, Ken
Posted on: 23 April 2007 by fidelio
tam - i believe tilson-thomas and the sfo have done most of the mahler symphonies, and the 5th is the most recent. think they may be lacking the 8th (understandable - have to hire out a rather large hall for that one). i haven't heard the 5th yet, but i own the 7th by them. they've issued all of them on hybrid sacd surround, and that's the only way i've heard it. perhaps the cd version is undercooked. anyway, they have been mostly well-received. as far as other mahler, specifically the 5th, i have three versions of it: haitink, berlin phil, abbado, also berlin phil, and sir rudolf schwartz, lso. i think of the three i like th abbado best. i also have his versions of the 3rd and 6th which are rather good, esp. the 3rd. very majestic but tight. i own inbal's 6th and like that too. of course you can't beat bernstein's mahler i guess. would like to have him on vinyl, i have lots of vinyl of mahler, but don't want to turn this into an all-nighter. one could make a lifelong study of mahler recordings; i think one would learn a lot about oneself ... rgds.
Posted on: 24 April 2007 by David Sutton
Tam,

I have been revisiting the Barbarolli Mahler 5 (on vinyl) in anticipation of hearing a spotty youth conducting it next week in London. I do not have any other benchmark recordings but would hope that Tennstedt or Abbado would be a good starting point.

david
Posted on: 25 April 2007 by Cyrene
quote:
Originally posted by KenM:
Barbirolli's 5th is absolutely essential listening. You may not like it, but I think it's a perfectly valid view. Otherwise, Bernstein/VPO.

Regards, Ken


Ditto. And the von Karajan too on DG. I'd like to hear the Abbado and the Bernstein for comparison.
Posted on: 26 April 2007 by KenM
Bernstein's magnificent Mahler 5th has just recently been reissued by DG in their "Grand Prix" low-to-mid-price series.

Ken
Posted on: 27 April 2007 by David Sutton
Tam,

Many thanks for starting this thread, for it has prompted me to take a couple of hours off to revisit the Barbarolli. I bought this recording in 1979 for GBP7.99 when I bought a Rega Planar3.

It still sounds wonderfully fresh and open. The opening movements are so sensational live that it is taxing, even for a good (ish) system, to do them justice.

Marvellous music!

david
Posted on: 27 April 2007 by David Sutton
Yes, I have revisited it wice now!

Ha!
Posted on: 27 April 2007 by Tam
Dear David (and others),

I shall really have to pick the disc up.



As far as the Bernstein 5th goes, I agree that it is rather special. Though, like many of his late recordings, it does tell you more about Bernstein than it does about Mahler. In many ways I find his earlier VPO reading (made for video release) more satisfying.

As to Abbado's Berlin reading (one of his earliest with the orchestra), I don't quite think it ranks up with his very finest Mahler (like the Berlin 6th which I think is very special).


Dear Fidelio,

It's interesting what you say about surround sound, and it may be that the stereo mastering is more problematic. My understanding is that they have recorded the 8th now, so it should be out shortly.

Out of interest, with the 3rd symphony, is that Abbado's BPO or VPO readings? I find the 3rd can be very tricky in that the 5th movement can easily upstage the finale and I don't find Abbado's has quite the punch here of, say, Bernstein or Haitink. Which is a shame, as the first 5 movements of the Berlin reading are stunning. Actually, he's bringing his Lucerne orchestra to the Proms this summer to play the symphony, can't wait....



regards, Tam
Posted on: 27 April 2007 by fidelio
tam,

thanks for the thread and comments. i shall attempt to carve out some time this weekend to do a little critical listening of the haitink and abbado 5th. i did this rather seriously a couple of years ago, and was just going by memory, but it will be a treat to check these out agin, on the cd5x ... so, more later.

best, artie