More tips from the cheap seats

Hmm,

As a dual-rail snaps + cd 3.5 user I might give this a try -- thanks. Question: are 5-pin DIN plugs widely available (and where)? I'm not quite willing to sacrifice one of my SNAICs.

Eric

Perfect and completely sound DIY improvement!
David

Andrew wrote:

"or possibly ONE of the SNAICS in a dual hicapped 82"

Wouldn't that make one of the channels sounding better than the other? Of course it might be a valid experiment on older two channel mono Beatles recordings...

JohanR

"Wouldn't that make one of the channels sounding better than the other? "

AFAIK, the 82 is not split L/R when using two hicaps, but front / back, hence no problems.

Plugs BTW are available from Farnell (www.farnell.com).
Andy.

quote:

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Originally posted by Andrew L. Weekes:
AFAIK, the 82 is not split L/R when using two hicaps, but front / back, hence no problems.

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Andy,

no, they're left & right, apparently.

For proof, running an 82 off one HiCap, but without the link plug should get you sound from only one channel.

cheers, Martin

This doesn't make a lot of sense - the signal must pass through one hicap only, so a L/R split makes no sense w.r.t. earthing and 0V reference.

I have it on good authority that in a 2 hicap config, 1 hicap feeds the gain stages, the other the rest of the preamp.

If you genuinely lose sound from one channel, it may be for other reasons.

Then again, since I have no actual hands-on experience, I stand to be corrected by those genuinely in the know.

A.

Yup, I was surprised, too. Ours is not to reason why.

Having trouble finding a definitive quote (specifying the search).

cheers, Martin

“The SNAIC cables, as pointed out by JV himself, are a compromise - for audio signals one generally wants low capacitance cable, for power one wants low impedance.”

You’re right up my street (well, country lane) there Andy, as I’ve found even the mighty black snaics are somewhat compromised. The biggest gain you can make is by significantly lowering the impedance of the 0V connection, lowering the Z of the 24V lines is much less productive.

For a while I used some HD three core flex between my hicap and 102 to good effect, but ultimately, the A5 (speaker cable) 0V ultra low impedance rail has the biggest grin factor. A black snaic is still employed to transmit the signal and 24V.

Regards
Mr Tibbs

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr.Tibbs:
the A5 (speaker cable) 0V ultra low impedance rail has the biggest grin factor. A black snaic is still employed to transmit the signal and 24V.
Mr Tibbs

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Interresting, how have you done this, a pic please.

Emmanuel

All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.

Things may be a little different with the feed to a CD3.5 / 5, since the external supply feeds internal regulators, and hence there are no 27R / 47u combo's to raise the +ve rail impedance at the input of the regulators, as per a pre-amp or similar.

Consequently, there may be benefits to lowering the 24V rail impedance in this case. I'd agree with the preamp scenario though.

Andy.

Manu,

Sorry, I haven’t got any pics at the minute, but here is the thousand word alternative.

First, remove a spare din socket from the hicap to allow the A4 / A5 speaker cable entry to the case. Cut about a foot long piece of cable and pass it into the case, then solder both cores of the cable directly to the main 0V connection between the capacitors. Before replacing the hicap lid, identify the five pin din socket and remove the existing 0V connection from it – this ensures there is now no 0V link between the hicap and pre-amp along the 5 way snaic. Use a cable tie on the inside of the case to act as strain relief, then close up the hicap. At this stage, fit an XLR socket to the end of the short piece of A4 / A5 leaving the hicap.

Now open the pre-amp ( in my case a 102 ). I use a home-brewed napsc, so that leaves a spare link socket which can be removed to allow entry of the cable. Feed some A4 / A5 into the pre-amp under the main PCB and bring back above the PCB at the point where the 0V spades for the phono boards are fitted. Each core of A5 can now be soldered to the base of the two 0V tags, giving direct access to the motherboard star earth point. If you run a 102, at this point you might want to remove the resistors which feed power to the tape buffer boards ( assuming you don’t use them ). If you’re lazy like me, you can simply snip one end of the resistors to break the circuit – a dot of solder is then all that’s required to re-make the circuit later on. That done, close up the pre-amp.

Lastly, cable tie the A4 / A5 cable leaving the pre-amp, to the five pin snaic – this is to avoid loop inductance ( as pointed out by the knowledgeable Bam, where are you old son? ). Where your 0V cable meets the hicap 0V XLR, you obviously need to fit an XLR plug, and that my friends is it.

This mod is a worthy contender in the ‘cheap seat’ stakes, as it costs virtually nothing and will make a 102 ( or most other Naim pre-amps ) behave as if they’ve just had another hicap attached. Don’t believe me? – Try it and be amazed.

Mr Tibbs

“Things may be a little different with the feed to a CD3.5 / 5, since the external supply feeds internal regulators, and hence there are no 27R / 47u combo's to raise the +ve rail impedance at the input of the regulators, as per a pre-amp or similar.”

Of course!!

Anyway, glad you are there to keep me ‘between the rails’ so to speak.

Mr Tibbs

quote:

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Handy Andy is never wrong

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Actually I'm frequently wrong, but always learning from the experience!

You must drop me an email, I've got some very interesting stuff for you, that you might have missed while you've been away. Can't talk about it here...

It'll be worth it, I promise

Andy.

I AM JUST ABOUT TO MAKE A POWER LEAD FROM HI CAP TO CD5 AS PER YOUR SUGGESTION (I HAVE REMOVED THE SPARE PINS IN DIN, GIVES YOU MORE SPACE TO MANOUVRE). I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE BUFFER OUT AS I DID ON MY PREVIOUS 32.5 AND 72 AND I DO NOT THINK MY DEALER WILL BE TO KEEN,CAN ANY ONE POINT ME TO THE CORRECT RESISTERS,THANKS

DAVID

I am surprise, but I don't doubt you, that the improvement is so great.
As the regulator is in the CD box not the SNAP.

I do agree that the SNAIC is a compromise. I have run the signal and power on seperate leads and they work very well, though not many folks here think it is a good idea.

Also, have you tried using solid lead instead of strained wires?
I have not done any comparison but I have mounted the regulators in the Pre-amp and they sound great - true low impedance.

Cheers.

King

One of the things that was a truly great surprise to me, and a disappointment too, was that when I developed a regulator offering extremely low output impedance, massive line rejection and very low noise, it was still easy to hear the difference from feeding that regulator with another one, of the same spec

My 112 has internal regulation, but still sounds massively better fed from a Hicap, or better, supply.

Andy.

P.S. DAVID - NO NEED TO SHOUT - there's a key marked 'Caps Lock' on your keyboard, try pressing it once

Sorry i am not too good at this joined up writing malarky. Home brew power lead installed and working,guess it will need some time to settle.

David

No probs, that's much better.

Do try the cable both ways round. As for the 102 problem, I can find out for you...

A.

David,
I’ll pull the 102 out for a wee photo shoot one of these days..


“Actually I'm frequently wrong, but always learning from the experience!”

Andy,
Don’t diss yourself good buddy, you aint never wrong.

“You must drop me an email, I've got some very interesting stuff for you, that you might have missed while you've been away. Can't talk about it here...”

Hmmm, interesting.. prepare to be emailed forthwith.

Mr Tibbs

quote:

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My 112 has internal regulation, but still sounds massively better fed from a Hicap, or better, supply.

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I presume that the Hicap is much better than the Flatcap 2 you were using. Also, from the above quote, it seems you've either tried a Supercap or built something better than the Hicap?

Just curious.

Steve B

Yes a Hicap is substantially better than the FC2 (I have two HC's here at present, but only for reference, they're not used in my system).

For clarity all 112's have int. reg's BTW, mine is not modded in any way from standard.

You'll have to email me for answers to your other question, lest I be banished from this place...

A.

Hi Andrew

Tried to E-Mail you but it bounced, would it be possible to have your E-Mail to ask a few questions about PSU's and stuff.

Cheers

Nick

Remove the NOFINSPAM bit from the email address.

A.

Am I understanding correctly that you have hardwired NAC-A5 (both cores) to the power supply and pre-amp?

Electrically, I can understand the concept but I'm a bit sceptical when loosening the locking nut on the SNAIC makes such a noticeable improvement. How are your cables "dressed"? I would think transmitting/dissipating vibrations between components from the A5 would be a problem? Or is supposed better earthing more important than vibration problems?

I haven't tried a good mod in a while and this one sounds right up my alley except for making sure about the cable routing before soldering. BTW, do you tin the A5 or use a heat clamp? I use a 40 watt iron for A5, but isn't that too hot for the board tracks?

Ron The Mon,
Needle-Freak

Something else I would benefit from?

Or is this what we have already covered?



"You must drop me an email, I've got some very interesting stuff for you, that you might have missed while you've been away. Can't talk about it here...

It'll be worth it, I promise "

Jo