Being stung for customs charges

Greetings Richard,

Value of goods over £18 from outside the UK attract VAT and/or import duty.

I generally get away with no charges, including a recently received set of seven Steely Dan SHM CDs from 'CD Japan' in one order.

Today, I shall be visiting my local Parcel Farce depot to pay £10.55 VAT and a Parcel Farce 'Clearance Fee' of £13.50 to collect a smaller pack of SHM CDs.

So ............ it seems that some packages get checked by HM Customs (and charged) and some don't.

Jackson Browne's new album 'Time the Conqueror' arrived from CD Japan yesterday - without import charges. Should JB be your musical bag, it's bloody superb - in content and recording quality. And only the Jap version contains a lovely live version of 'Late for the Sky' as a bonus track.

At 2,400 Yen (about £13) there was no danger of incurring import duties.

So to be safe, order one CD at a time - though of course that's not cost effective on postal charges.

John.

All of what J.N. said, but in theory if you order through Amazon market place then the vat is paid already, so theoretically no worries. You'll also pay lower shipping costs, this way.

Don't know if you can get SHM CDs this way, tho'.

Are the SHM CDs better once they are ripped and become streaming files ?

cheers

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Harty601:
...I ordered another 2 albums and have been charged £19.50 by customs...

And, speaking selfishly, it won't be looking good for my Rory Gallagher order later this month. Three SHM-CDs (Live in Europe, Irish Tour '74 and Calling Card) which I split into two orders - 2 and 1 - because I thought it would just creep under the customs threshold.

I think I'll try single ordering in future. More in postage, but still cheaper than HMRC and PO...

I ordered through amazon market place about 7 CD's. Grouped them for postage reasons, waited forever due to grouping and the royal mail did not send them until i paid the charges!! Cd's were ordered from the US. Won't be making that mistake again!

ATB

KK

I have only twice in 20 years been charged customs duty on any parcel. One was from the States 18 years ago and the other was recently from cdjapan.

I have had discs coming in from all over with values up to £120.

It has just ocurred to me that are used cd's classed as duty free or non duty free? Never have known the answer.

Just depends on what percentage of parcels they check on any given day from any destination.

The main cost is for the admin cost of the PO staff (joke) rather than the duty to be paid.

Ewen - you have been very lucky.

I have had four shipments recently and all four have been hit with £30+ payments. This is a real problem as I am collecting Blue Note albums from the US that get released monthly so it is getting to the point where two 45RPM Blue Notes with shipping and custom charges can cost me £110. Those economics do not work for me and I will have to find a different way of collecting or cancel my subscription.

Certainly different in Oz where I could order up to $1000 of gear with no custom charges to pay.

I have ordered quite a few computer parts and disk arrays, and been hit by ridiculous customs payements, 25% easily.

I have also been charged on CDs and DVDs over the last couple of years.

It particularly irks me when is for item I can't get hold of in the UK. I was charged on a couple of Peter Greenaway Japanese DVD box sets which despite being one of the UK's most innovative film makers, are only available on Japanese editions.

Sorry but mass produced mindless films mostly bore me.

As above for Lontano with the Blue Note releases, this is becoming a tax on having taste.

How long has limit been £18? Surely it must be due for at least some inflationary increase? Can we lobby someone? Perhaps at least to reduce the ridiculous handling fee (which seems way over the top) as tax is tax and a fact of life.

I have discovered that with 'open orders' it is possible to split multi-CD orders into separate shipping. And you don't lose out too much because of loss of economy of scale.

Shipping two CDs separately works out at about 1/3 again the cost of shipping together. A little bit more expensive, yes, but MUCH cheaper than being stung by a Customs surcharge!

Perhaps the longest way round IS sometimes the shortest way home.

James

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:

quote:

Originally posted by Harty601:
...I ordered another 2 albums and have been charged £19.50 by customs...

And, speaking selfishly, it won't be looking good for my Rory Gallagher order later this month. Three SHM-CDs (Live in Europe, Irish Tour '74 and Calling Card) which I split into two orders - 2 and 1 - because I thought it would just creep under the customs threshold.

I think I'll try single ordering in future. More in postage, but still cheaper than HMRC and PO...

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
Ewen - you have been very lucky.

I have had four shipments recently and all four have been hit with £30+ payments. This is a real problem as I am collecting Blue Note albums from the US that get released monthly so it is getting to the point where two 45RPM Blue Notes with shipping and custom charges can cost me £110. Those economics do not work for me and I will have to find a different way of collecting or cancel my subscription.

Certainly different in Oz where I could order up to $1000 of gear with no custom charges to pay.

Always amazed me how lucky I have been after I have read what some of you have had to pay.

Surely tax evasion is morally wrong as well as being illegal.

Thus even if you have not been caught in a spot check, you should volunteer to pay HM Customs what is legally due in any case.

The strange thing is that tax evasion is considered fine in some cases and a terrible thing in others.

Taxation in its various forms is what allows for a more civilised society, and if it happens to be levied on luxury imported items as in this case with self-imported CDs, then there is absolutely no possible justification for feeling hard done by if caught, or indeed not volunteering to pay if not, IMO.

Just a thought. George

nuts.

(tax is paid on the purchase in the host country, paying again in UK may be the law but is double taxation morally right?)

Is failing to fund the National Health Service as it would be if there was no tax evasion morally right. There are two sides to the issue in reality. I think is a risky business to decide how to cherry pick the parts of the law you want to obey and those you want to ignore ... What if someone wants to break a bit of law that you would want upheld? Burgling your house for example, but the burgler might say it is okay as you are well off and must have insurance so no real harm done. No one gets physically hurt in either scenario in reality.

If this form of law breakng tax-evasion is okay, which bits of tax-evasion are not okay? Who decides apart from our democratically chosen governement, which frames legislation to make the position clear. Either lobby for a change in the law or obey it, or, in extremis, emmigrate. Otherwise, the slippery slope to anarchy starts!

George

But why pay tax twice? Especially on an item not sold by a UK retailer. There is no work/effort on the part of any UK business or Government involved in the purchase. So why pay UK tax on it? Any kind of contract including the payment of tax, requires a form of exchange to be morally (and usually legally) correct in my opinion.

I have funded the Japanese health service by my purchase of an item in Japan. Should I really be funding two health services, for the one purchase?

By an extension of your logic (to the nth degree i.e. not drawing any lines at all), then any goods purchased by anyone, anywhere in the world should pay the UK government tax on the purchase.

George,

Getting into an argument about taxation and what one does and does not get in return for what one pays is not really the point. I do not have an issue with paying tax, I do have an issue when it is 50% of the purchase price. If HMRC want to recoup the VAT, I would expect to pay 17.5%. That said and done, it does niggle me that if these albums were available in the UK I would happily buy them and pay the duty in the UK - it seems a shame that we are being "stung" by 50% - as we have to buy them abroad.

All that said and done, I am so happy with the sound of well recorded standard CDs on my system that I don't think I will bother ordering from Japan in the future. But then I do have cloth ears


Richard

And that

Dear James,

A question to put to your MP I would think. Not having an answer to such a question, in no way legitimises any law breaking you find acceptable. Once law breaking becomes morally acceptable then who is to decide which laws are not to be broken in any case. What is wrong with a bit of card fraud, if the card owner can afford it?

Tax evasion is under every conceivable circumstance immoral in my view. As is fraud or burgary, if oyu had any suspiscion that I was condoning such activities.

George

Some may question the imorality of burgary more than others..

Well said Harty 601. I am yet unable to work out how they do calculate these excessive charges but it does seem to me that I am paying tax on the shipping costs as well. Rip off.

OK George, each to their own. I would remind you though (although I'm sure you don't need it) that through History there are numerous cases of citizens rebelling against (initially by venting their frustrations and then by not paying) taxes perceived as unfair that have led to a fairer change (whether by peasants, albeit eventually, or Bostonians for instance). Perhaps we should lobby as I suggested earlier.

I'm sure everyone has their own lines they'd draw in the sand though. For instance if basic rate of tax went up to 75%, there may be a more than a few rebels...

quote:

Originally posted by Lontano:
Well said Harty 601. I am yet unable to work out how they do calculate these excessive charges but it does seem to me that I am paying tax on the shipping costs as well. Rip off.

I think you're right there - CD Japan ship with Parcel force to the UK and when I received an invoice for the "customs" charges it was for one figure but was detailed on the invoice as customs and handling charge. So I"m sure Parcel Force are sticking it to us as well. I'm sure there is an argument somewhere that there is admin for them to do - but then I've already paid them to ship it once. Maybe there is a loss in translation on the CD Japan web site. When you select which method, choosing "ship it to me asap" gets translated to "stick it to me asap". An easy mistake to make

Maybe we should start a club and once a month one of us could fly to japan and bring a load back - I am not a customs expert, but I think you are legally allowed to bring back something like £230 worth of purchases. At this rate it is cheaper than paying delivery and customs charges

quote:

Originally posted by Harty601:

Maybe we should start a club and once a month one of us could fly to japan and bring a load back - I am not a customs expert, but I think you are legally allowed to bring back something like £230 worth of purchases. At this rate it is cheaper than paying delivery and customs charges

Now that's a good idea. I'll just check out what is on at the Blue Note in Tokyo as well and let you know when I can make the first trip!! It's £160 I think.

I think the Aussie government have it right. As long as you are not importing to sell on, then $1000 aussie of goods can be imported for personal use. Very sensible, aligned to what you can bring in with you through the airport as well and recognises the global, internet world we now live in.

Those damn Aussies - not content with living a sunny life full of beer and barbies (the grill, not the doll) they now have the nouse to regulate their customs practices sensibly.

If you are from down under then please feel free to reply with some stereotypical comments on us pomms!!!

This sounds like a political lobbying job. If there are enough votes in it your lobby group will get the law changed to something like what is being reported that the Aussies have!

ATB from George

quote:

Originally posted by Harty601:
Those damn Aussies - not content with living a sunny life full of beer and barbies (the grill, not the doll) they now have the nouse to regulate their customs practices sensibly.

If you are from down under then please feel free to reply with some stereotypical comments on us pomms!!!

Yeah not fair. NZ Customs only collect duty if they will collect $50 or more.