The story behind the music

Sorry to respond to such an erudite posting with such brevity, but I think it depends on the data. I've not lain on the couch in a darkened room, but I suspect that data which I might perceive of as being negative doesn't make me enjoy the music more.

Here's a clear vote for the meta-layer that absolutely adds to the music fo me.

I played John Lennon's last album (which I find mediocre) with that information that he had been shot, shortly after the release. (Same for early Oregon recordings, Janis Joplin, Eva Cassidy, Buckley ...)

Gorecki's symphony creates it's tear-draining quality from the historic background, not from the musical content

Most live recordings done in the Village Vanguard are in the context of all the historic Jazz moments. (same for "historic" Jazz recordings popping up like mushrooms, lately..)

So, from MY side, knowledge of the surroundings are very important - like a catalyst, if you want. Now, having thought about it, some more, I don't think this is a good thing, because it gives less of a chance for new, un-known musicians, but OTOH I don't feel guilty to be closed to new music(ians).

Hmhh, good thread, Haim

cheers
Stefan

quote:

Originally posted by sjust:
Here's a clear vote for the meta-layer that absolutely adds to the music fo me.

cheers
Stefan

Stefan,

It is a very mixed bag for me. I know that nothing is created in a vacuum, but sometimes the contex given with the music is the wrong one, or a negative one which definitly steers me in the wrong direction.

I know that knowledge eventually catches up with us and adds some extra layers to the music we listen to and becomes a subconscious part of it, but sometimes I try to delay the process.

Recently, I find myself just prefering to listen to new-unfamiliar music at least a few times by itself, before I start reading the liners or anything else about the piece. Like that, the intelect is closer to a 'pause' mode, and the music reaches me more directly.

Best regards,

Haim

Haim,

It's a mixture - good music should stand alone, but extra knowledge can enhance the music. Last recordings from favorite artists are always sad as there is the sense that if the recording was not their greatest art, no more will ever be experienced again.

I read so much about the "meanings" in Shostakovich and Bach that I just stopped reading, as they cluttered the experience for me. Like I said, good music stands alone. Still, I am sure that for certain pieces a little explanation can help.

Huw

well, I loved the later Beatles stuff as a kid and finding out that Sexy Sadie was John talking about the Maharishee definitely added to that. Knowing other historical stuff about the making of the whole or individual pieces enhances my knowledge but essentially the ejoyment of it. But I too like to hear a piece before the info is added. tho first time I heard Qt for the End of Time they'd given comments on it and I was profoundly moved moreso than if they had just played it. I still love the work.

Dear Haim!
I must confess that sometimes i can't remember the titles of the album i'm talkin' about.
Sometimes i even can't remember the composer or the player.
But there's a very close relation that runs between music and the period it was written.
Or between music and the meaning it gets in history.
This mechanism doesn't always works like it should anyway.
When i do listen to Chopin my mind goes to Europe in the '30s of the passed century (movies aside).
Sometimes, listening to some records, i feel that the music is coming to me has no time and no links.
Usually i do ignore at all the biography of composers or bands.
If some informations makes me give a kind of substance to the message i'm getting and help me understand some faces of the music i'm listening to, usually i don't mind but let the music take me away.
I have time for papers.
It's just like when you go and see a concert of an unkown band of player: i let sensations work.
Ciao!
Gianluigi

If you take this into the some might say more mundane world of rock and pop

when my kids now in their 20s say listen to this

they exchange glances waiting on me saying

the rolling stones should sue
or thats just like so and so from the 8os

so prior knowledge seems to inform but can detract from enjoyment

i never enjoyed franz ferdinands take you out as it sounded like man a welsh 1970s band

i wonder if this happens with classical movement ie you cant enjoy something composed in the 19th century as it is very close to an earlier 17th century piece

just my 2ps worth
mike

quote:

Originally posted by oxgangs:
....it sounded like Man a welsh 1970s band

mike

I just got an anthology by Man, but it wasn't as good as I expected with too much live material - I had expected the original versions and there was no hint on the cover that they weren't. Got caught with an Atomic Rooster anthology in the same way. Two good groups with two pretty substandard anthologies - no doubt not the groups' fault: that's record companies for you.

get yer vinyl out

as you rotf are a man of taste

compare and contrast

man spunk rock with franz ferdinand take me out

deke leonard should sue

mike (bananas)

It's a double edged sword really.

finding out "Martha my Dear" was about Paul's dog really didn't do much for the song.

Finding out "Moonbeam Josephine" was about Pierce Turner's grandfather suffering Alzheimer's disease added such poignancy to the song for me as my mother suffers with it to. The knowledge certainly changes one's perception as I'm nearly always in tears listening to the latter.


SJB

quote:

Originally posted by Gianluigi Mazzorana:
Dear Haim!
I must confess that sometimes i can't remember the titles of the album i'm talkin' about.
Sometimes i even can't remember the composer or the player.
Ciao!
Gianluigi

Dear Gian,

I think that forgetting is a form of a self defense mechanism, where too much knowledge might spoil our pleasure.

It was a long car ride to the airport and my wife had plenty of time to turn the question around and start discussig the affect of knowledge on us when we are looking at paintings, but this is entirely a different story...


Best regards,

Haim

quote:

Originally posted by Haim Ronen:
I think that forgetting is a form of a self defense mechanism, where too much knowledge might spoil our pleasure.

Ciao Haim!
Of course it is.
Sometimes i meet people who knows everything about music but treat it like a kind of job.
It happened to me when playin' and recording music via computer: little by little it became a kind of job and amusement disappeard.
So i don't worry anymore if i don't remember records titles or names anymore.
What i care more about is having always a record close at hand to play.
That's important!

personally, "with data" has never detracted from my appreciation for a piece, only enhanced it. i'm just as fascinated by the personal process and historical happenings (musical or social) that interwind with the the creation of music as i am with the final product itself. for whatever reason, i feel like it gets me closer to the music.

i'm nearly done with the excellent book "Kind of Blue - the Making of the Miles Davis Masterpiece" by Ashley Kahn and can't wait to get his study on Coltrane's "A Love Supreme".

PACE

quote:

Originally posted by fishski13:
i'm nearly done with the excellent book "Kind of Blue - the Making of the Miles Davis Masterpiece" by Ashley Kahn and can't wait to get his study on Coltrane's "A Love Supreme".

Yes.
I do understand.
But when i do listen to music i do forget about anything else.
What i get from speakers only rarely brings me to "datas" and informations.
It's the only way to let the door open to new things and to destroy, if necessary, the work of a well known player.
Too many people just shake their hands on works i do estimate less than a piece of rubbish.
Too many forget that the best in music is discovering and sayin' what must be said.
Music is the anarchy and that's how it must be.

Interesting thread. I enjoy the story behind the music because it adds to the transcendent/time travel quality that I strive for, and it has helps me listen to things that I have heard thousands of times with new perspective, making it that much more enthralling.

To me, music is inextricably intertwined with history, both social and technological. I am interested in what was going on at the time, and what people were doing, how they were living. I enjoy it when music takes me away to another place and time, such as San Francisco in 1966, or London in 1976, to name a few places I have experience with. I also like to understand how sounds are created, from the room/hall to the equipment, i.e. headley grange, or putting the microphone in a milk bottle, or what ever. Apocryphal stories or factual accounts always add to the ability of music to transport me to another place and time. This is what I value.

I do try to avoid letting critics reviews/ opinions/interpretations color my listening experience. I like Dylan's attitude towards the critics.

A good summary might be that when I read Mojo, I don't read it for the reviews of new music (they hand out stars like candy on halloween) but I do enjoy the band interviews, hello/goodbye, all back to my place, and anything that sheds light on music, its creators and its context.

I am also reading Here There and Everywhere, Brian Epstein's book about the Beatles that has lots of great technical/contextual info that has me listening to the Beatles in a whole new way.

John

quote:

I am also reading Here There and Everywhere, Brian Epstein's book about the Beatles that has lots of great technical/contextual info that has me listening to the Beatles in a whole new way.

Brian wrote "a cellarful of noise" the above is Geoff Emerick's book.

SJB

Nick Drake's "Fruit Tree" without the context of a lost great talent is still great, but even more so with the knowledge that he wrote for his first album and thus it became a curse as well.

Jono

I've returned to this thread to see what has been said since my earlier post. There are interesting points being made.

However, I perhaps expressed myself too briefly (for once!). Sometimes I come back to things I've said in different contexts and realise that there is another view, or that I was just plain wrong. In this case, I think what I tried to say was, at least, in the right direction.

Whatever your prior perception of a piece of music, if you hear something about the artist, the circumstances of the recording or whatever, that you think is positive information, that will tend to have a positive effect on your enjoyment of the music. And vice versa.

What each of us perceives as positive is, of course different. I can't say that James Brown's extra-musical shenanigans have enhanced my love of his music. I still enjoy the music, but in some small, unquantifiable way, I suspect that my enjoyment has been tainted. On the other hand, though I'm not sure it is in chapter one of the book of civlised human conduct, when you hear about him instantly fining his musicians for bum notes there something that makes me admire that sort of dedication. As an educator, I'm not sure about it as a motivational technique, but it is evidence of striving for perfection. I think it is fair to say that I'm not put off the music of, say, Eryka Badhu by the fact that I think she's rather cute. Conversely, some macho rock bands flourish on being challenged in the looks department.

This reminds me of when they turn to the jury and say something like 'The jurors should ignore that evidence'. Yeh! Right! The effect of the knowledge may be infinitesimal, but I believe it will nudge you in a direction dependent on how you perceive it.

Let he who is without prejudice throw the first stone.

quote:

Originally posted by John M:
To me, music is inextricably intertwined with history, both social and technological.

Hi John!
That's a very good point!
Cheers!
Gianluigi

quote:

Originally posted by Sloop John B:

quote:

I am also reading Here There and Everywhere, Brian Epstein's book about the Beatles that has lots of great technical/contextual info that has me listening to the Beatles in a whole new way.

Brian wrote "a cellarful of noise" the above is Geoff Emerick's book.

SJB

DOh!!! Thanks for the correction. I realized it on my way home on the subway that I had the two mixed up. Definitely the Geoff Emerick book to which I am referring. I was hoping I could get to the computer in time to edit my post, but alas, this IS the Naim Music Forum!! What was I thinking!!!

By the way - does your moniker mean you are a Beach Boys fan, or just that of the traditional sailing song? Both are interesting to me!