Tony Blair

Well he is articulate so he appears more intelligent that your average US president. He is a war criminal. He deserves to be locked up with George W. Bush. There are people in the UK who go into book shops and move his memoirs to the Crime Section. Good Idea.

For all his PR skills - and they are considerable - he ultimately led a divided government which crashed the economy - big time.

Clay

I'm with you on this one but I will be part of a small minority on here.

Cheers

Jim

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he ultimately led a divided government which crashed the economy - big time.

In Greece?

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Originally posted by David Scott?:

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he ultimately led a divided government which crashed the economy - big time.

In Greece?

Nah - they only built up a piddling debt. We've got a proper biggie which will hamstring us and our kids for years to come!

Only if the Trade Unions, who now seem to sniff that they have a chance to be "meaningful" again, decide to bring the country to it's knees...

Jim

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decide to bring the country to it's knees...

Only fair, big business has had it's go.

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Nah - they only built up a piddling debt. We've got a proper biggie which will hamstring us and our kids for years to come!

As of Feb this year Greece's debt was 123% of GDP while Britain's was forecast to rise to 87% later in the year.

My comment to SWMBO on Tony Blair when he was first elected was "used car salesman". Nothing he did ever changed that opinion. The worst prime minister in my lifetime, IMO.

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"used car salesman"

Unfortunately he had nothing left to sell, after 'she' sold the crown jewels.

This is the first time I have wholeheartedly agreed with a post by Sniper.

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Originally posted by David Scott?:

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Nah - they only built up a piddling debt. We've got a proper biggie which will hamstring us and our kids for years to come!

As of Feb this year Greece's debt was 123% of GDP while Britain's was forecast to rise to 87% later in the year.

So given the relative sizes of the respective GDPs we have a much bigger debt......

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Originally posted by Sniper:
He is a war criminal.

So was that Iraqi bloke.

We loose a war criminal and gain a war criminal. Relax, the World is in equilibrium again.

More pressingly, how the hell do I bend my Burndy enough without damaging it so that it doesn't touch the wall?

Regards, Ian

quote:

Originally posted by Exiled Highlander:
Clay

I'm with you on this one but I will be part of a small minority on here.

Cheers

Jim

I agree also. It would be interesting to know how history judges him.

Like him or loathe him, there can be no doubt he was a very charismatic Prime Minister, as was Margaret Thatcher (who I personally loathed).

A war criminal? I really don't believe we know the whole story behind the Iraq war, and maybe never will. Responsible for our current financial situation? I suppose as PM he has ultimate responsibility but we all share some of the blame.

In my personal view, although I did not always agree with his policy, I think he was one of the brightest, articulate British Prime Ministers, just look at David Cameron, Gordon Brown, John Major, etc. you will see what I mean.

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Originally posted by tonym:
we all share some of the blame.

"You choose your leaders and place your trust" Oh 'eck - I feel a song coming on.

T Blair?

Because of his decisions on Iraq to lamely follow the retard Bush and imbecile Cheney. Because of compensation culture and ambulance chasing free for all his tea party for his (fellow) lawyers has created. Because he allowed, nay encouraged Brown to rape pension funds and ramp up employer's costs to fund a bloated state. Because of the huge central bureaucracy and over-regulation of even the most basic commercial activities without ever really tackling serious (read, difficult) large scale fraud and mis-dealing. Because of a culture that encourages the feckless, and removes individual responsibility to the point where no matter how stupid you are...protection and compensation is provided to the detriment of the conscientious.

History should judge Blair very harshly. After the truly awful Thatcher and the incompetence of Major...Blair had a golden opportunity. A plague on him.

Joe

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Because he allowed, nay encouraged Brown to rape pension funds and ramp up employer's costs to fund a bloated state. Because of the huge central bureaucracy and over-regulation of even the most basic commercial activities

Nuff said.

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So given the relative sizes of the respective GDPs we have a much bigger debt......

Which we will find much easier to pay off as our revenues are so much higher. Do try and keep up.

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Originally posted by Clay Bingham:
Apologies in advance for commenting on one of your own but I just came back from a bike ride and caught the end of an interview with Tony Blair on Public Broadcasting's Newshour. Having watched him before he became Prime Minister, on Prime Ministers Question time, and at other times throughout his career, I continue to find him an exceptional talent. Articulate and thoughtful, he has a perspective that, agree or disagree, is certainly hard to ignore. Would have been an interesting choice for EU President. And yes, I realize he is not well loved at home. Maybe that is something that will change over time.

Clay, if you and your fellow countrymen rate him so much, could you take him off our hands please? If I see much more of his smug rictus grin I think I'm gonna puke...

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Originally posted by Joe Bibb:

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
we all share some of the blame.

"You choose your leaders and place your trust" Oh 'eck - I feel a song coming on.

T Blair?

Because of his decisions on Iraq to lamely follow the retard Bush and imbecile Cheney. Because of compensation culture and ambulance chasing free for all his tea party for his (fellow) lawyers has created. Because he allowed, nay encouraged Brown to rape pension funds and ramp up employer's costs to fund a bloated state. Because of the huge central bureaucracy and over-regulation of even the most basic commercial activities without ever really tackling serious (read, difficult) large scale fraud and mis-dealing. Because of a culture that encourages the feckless, and removes individual responsibility to the point where no matter how stupid you are...protection and compensation is provided to the detriment of the conscientious.

History should judge Blair very harshly. After the truly awful Thatcher and the incompetence of Major...Blair had a golden opportunity. A plague on him.

Joe

I agree with much of what you say there Joe but I think a big part of the problem was too little regulation, not too much.

Blair, not Major, was truly Thatcher's heir. The 21 years that noxious pair spent in power will cost this country dearly for decades to come...

It amazed me that when he was still PM he was able to buy properties well outwith the realms of his and hers salaries. I remember an article working out his finances at the time which pretty much said that there was no way he could get/afford the mortgage. Little did they know he had a plan. JPMorgan Chase consultancies, after dinner speeches, EU envoy to the ME. Not forgetting the pension, private office and security costs to the tax payer.

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:

I agree with much of what you say there Joe but I think a big part of the problem was too little regulation, not too much.

Blair, not Major, was truly Thatcher's heir. The 21 years that noxious pair spent in power will cost this country dearly for decades to come...

No Kev, rafts of unnecessary regulation at lower levels paralyses enterprise and activity. To the point where teachers won't take kids on outdoor activities...small business's will do everything to avoid the overhead of employing people and so on. The laws of the land are there to deal with fraud and you try getting a conviction....I speak from bitter experience, £400,000 stolen, criminals convicted. Police got their conviction but the business got nothing returned and all the help given to secure the conviction cost more money. Never would I report a fraud again. I'd find an alternative method of dealing with such a problem in future.

I digress. Nit-wit regulation massively stifles innocent activity and does little to stop the criminally minded. It's usually put in place by people with little knowledge of the industry or activity it's applied to. It is usually monitored by people who couldn't cut it commercially in that industry. For example, the FSA is mainly populated by people who failed in insurance and banking and want a cushy number auditing others. When it happens to activities that contribute to wealth generation, or even people's enjoyment of life...we all lose.

Joe

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:

Blair, not Major, was truly Thatcher's heir. The 21 years that noxious pair spent in power will cost this country dearly for decades to come...

I recall that GB was terrorized by the unions in the early 80's until Thatcher broke their backs!

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Originally posted by Peter Dinh:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin-W:

Blair, not Major, was truly Thatcher's heir. The 21 years that noxious pair spent in power will cost this country dearly for decades to come...

I recall that GB was terrorized by the unions in the early 80's until Thatcher broke their backs!

Yes, and look what Thatch and Blair replaced it with... a self-serving, solipsistic manageriat; a free-market fundamentalism which has seen most of the country's assets sold off cheaply (many of them ending up in foreign hands) to - with the possible exception of telecomms - no appreciable benefit for the average citizen; a bankrupt foreign policy which involves following US diktats to the letter; a downgrading of the virtues of public service in favour of self-interest (and not even enlightened self-interest)... I could go on.

It's enough to make you long for the days of Len Murray, Jack Jones, Jimmy Knapp, Scargill, Grimond et al.

I'm not quite sure what your point is...

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Dinh:

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin-W:

Blair, not Major, was truly Thatcher's heir. The 21 years that noxious pair spent in power will cost this country dearly for decades to come...

I recall that GB was terrorized by the unions in the early 80's until Thatcher broke their backs!

Yes, and look what Thatch and Blair replaced it with... a self-serving, solipsistic manageriat; a free-market fundamentalism which has seen most of the country's assets sold off cheaply (many of them ending up in foreign hands) to - with the possible exception of telecomms - no appreciable benefit for the average citizen; a bankrupt foreign policy which involves following US diktats to the letter; a downgrading of the virtues of public service in favour of self-interest (and not even enlightened self-interest)... I could go on.

It's enough to make you long for the days of Len Murray, Jack Jones, Jimmy Knapp, Scargill, Grimond et al.

I'm not quite sure what your point is...

My point is that you would not want a repeat of the "Winter of Discontent" that brings down the UK and makes her become a joke of the modern world. Remember the phrase "the sick man of Europe"?