Come on... Dacs, Unity ??

Patience, my son....

AES/EBU connection would be very nice!

I'd like to go to check out the new "Reference" Speakers - The "nDebts"

quote:

Does a cut-down HDX (UNity? urggghh on that name) count as a new DAC?

nope definately different,

Barrie

A cut-down HDX? oh no...
I would prefer a Naim DAC which would match their upper CDPs (CDS3?) performance.
Otherwise I will look for a DAC upgrade elsewhere..

I could imagine that there will be a "Unity" or whatever it's called and also a seperate DAC which would make sense as it allows Naim to get sales in several customer groups,

a)I want a music stream but no hard drive required and I've got a DAC or S/N already = Unity

b)I want to use my Mac (or whatever) as the source = Naim DAC

c) I want a music streamer and a DAC = Unity + Naim DAC

and still allows a market for the all-in-one solution of the HDX.

IMHO

Barrie

Mind you bet you I'm miles out on the guess

quote:

Originally posted by baz100:
c) I want a music streamer and a DAC = Unity + Naim DAC

Hopefully the Naim streamer will have a Naim DAC. Most streamers have analogue output.

quote:

Same here absolutely. It needs to be that good to persaude me to relegate my Lavry.

Agreed - although something of Lavry peformance with a remote control would be good. It would save me having to use the n-Vi (with its sloooooooow start up) for TV sound.

James

I hope a Naim DAC doesn't sound like a Lavry. ( that will be a huge disappointment )

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
I hope a Naim DAC doesn't sound like a Lavry. ( that will be a huge disappointment )

Likewise.

I'd be keen on a driveless HDX though. Very keen.

Spot on Kuma. Hype is a funny thing.

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
A cut-down HDX? oh no...
I would prefer a Naim DAC which would match their upper CDPs (CDS3?) performance.
Otherwise I will look for a DAC upgrade elsewhere..

It would have to clearly better (not just match) a CDS3 to get me to give up my Lavry - particularly at the price that will likely be asked for it. I got rid of my CDS3/XPS2/HiLine combination some months ago in favour of a DA10 and have not regretted it for a second since. It was one of the best hi-fi related decisions I have ever made and my only regret is not having heard the Lavry sooner.

quote:

Hype is a funny thing.

Indeed - it can even make some people spend $$$$ on hard disk players that exhibit a host of reliability issues while producing average sound quality, just so long as they have the right logo on them.

A little defensive, Michael? I'm not about to comment on a Naim product I've never even seen, let alone heard, btw.

I find it amusing that some posters on this thread already have dacs that beat a cds3 - I guess you all want another one, right? : )

Peace out,
CC

quote:

Originally posted by Chief Chirpa:

I find it amusing that some posters on this thread already have dacs that beat a cds3 - I guess you all want another one, right?

If Naim can produce a DAC that betters the DA10 and is in the same price range (or is even moderately more expensive), I would definitely be interested - I happen to like the Naim family sound. But I am not holding my breath for that to happen - as has been pointed out many times on this forum, they would be effectively shooting themselves in the foot as far as their CDP range is concerned.

To each his own. I'm sure we'll see something when they're happy with it and not before. I suspect their goals are loftier than the $1k DACs.

That they don't have one yet may bode well for the end result. I would think a bit of discovery and application of that knowledge is what is holding things up.

It would be extremely important for Naim to come up with a DAC. As far as I can see, more and more people are turning away from CDP. All in one solution such as the HDX does not cut it.

Sure it does but of course it doesn't fit everyone nor was it intended to. I'm sure they'll respond.

Actually,QTT I would disagree with that comment. There is no one correct music solution, it's not a one size fits all problem. While the goal is to get the best musical performance from the system, each person has their own needs and wants which will guide their purchase.

We can sit and debate performance and cost so I'll leave that out.

For some people such as myself, I don't want to fuss around with computer settings and I am happy to have Naim figure out the issue, hence getting my collection onto an HDD or soon to a NAS with Naim setting the parameters is fine by me. I also happen to feel that the different files and ripping programs sound different despite "bit perfect" copies and after what I've heard in numerous demo combinations that Naim has done it right.

DAC-- personally leaves too much to user set-up and software,ripping solutions as alluded to above. Furthermore despite remote control of a computer I don't want NAS devices,pcs,macs sitting next to my equipment in the same room requiring direct connection and hook-up.

Streamer- this is more my type of solution which is ethernet connected and storage of my music is elsewhere in my home. Whether that "streamer" has it's own HDD (HDX) or not (Linn DS)is a personal choice. Again only drawback here is dependency upon ripping sofware, etc... as described above.

With DAC/streamer solutions the music is stored externally and with the HDX both internally and soon externally, therefore, flexibility with your music in all systems. The streamers can be programmed to access internet radio.

Each product has it's own aspects that will be attractive to certain groups of people.

All true gary.

However, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn when I say the HDX will prove to be a very short-lived product, and that Naim's second generation of computer audio products (some seemingly set for imminent release) should see a big improvement in every respect.

Yes or no?

I agree with your overview as well Gary.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief Chirpa:
...the HDX will prove to be a very short-lived product...

I find this hard to believe Mr Chirpa! The R&D costs, not to mention the marketing since, would have been huge for a product such as the HDX. There is no way that is simply going to be given up in a 12 month cycle. Judging from the suggested systems advice, it clearly sits in the late mid to high end of the product scale. As the product includes software, it can (has and is) being updated as time goes along bringing improvements in various aspects...

My guess is various other 'computer audio' products will appear that serve other separate functions in a range of set up scenarios, much how baz100 hypothesises, but the HDX is 'it' and will stay for some time, going through a number of updates and upgrades with software and perhaps hardware - something alike a top Canon digital camera, a 1DS becoming a 1DS mkII, then mkIII, and so on....

quote:

Originally posted by SC:

I find this hard to believe Mr Chirpa!...

Relax, Chief is fine. : )

We'll see, SC. Even though I was treading carefully out of respect for Naim, it's obvious why I said what I did: future-proofing.

Naim make amplifiers - all of the amps above the 202/200 are at least six years old. No problem there, even though they use a very old basic amplifier circuit, they're all still effectively state of the art. Naim's last three new amps are all integrateds below £2,500 - they know their market for amplifiers, and where they can improve their products and their market share. With respect, the same can't be said about computer audio.

Moreover, can you imagine Naim's computer audio products ever having a similar lifespan, especially when they're still finding their feet in this field? They'll make mistakes, and products will come and go, as with the AV1, soon replaced by the AV2, just like even Apple drop products that fail. Any R&D costs will be absorbed by future generations of products, so nothing's lost there.

As you say, products will be improved, often by software updates, but the best way to improve on the hard drive in the HDX is to use a different storage solution altogether - solid state looks the likeliest contender just now.

One thing's for sure - I'm looking forward to what's around the corner from Naim more than ever.

Yes Chief !

Yeah, I agree with some of this obviously. NO computer product in the world has a life span of much more than a year or two - even Apple's typical cycle is 18 months (although they seem to be doing a good job of ignoring this with the Pro towers and the Mini !)...

The only thing that concerns me, looking from the outside and being new to the Naim community here, is whether such a specialised niche audio company as Naim have the necessary deep pockets to play in the game of rapid turnover ? I obviously don't know the answer to that question, but your example of AV products is very apt - they certainly don't seem to be playing in that market very much now, do they...?!

But I agree, we'll see....!

There's no such thing as future proof. If you want to wait for the next thing before you jump in, you'll be without for the rest of your existance. Even if CDs eventually become obsolete, an HDX will still work at playing anything up to 24/96 from any network or USB source besides the inboard material. I don't see the problem. If a killer DAC comes along, use the DIG out with the very nice software library access. Even without the ripping or inbord DAC it's still quite useful.

Personal opinion about the quality of other DACs and interfaces to them aside, at worst, you've paid a bit extra for a few years of high quality playback while you store your collection and wait for something better to come along. If it sounds good now, it's not going to suddenly become less good. If it's not what your looking for, that's fine but this piece is about as future proof as it gets without sacrificing your present. I would suspect that even if you have a PS, it could be transfered over to a Naim DAC if/when that happens. Think about it. Why wouldn't Naim allow all of their CDP and HDX owners with PS's to have an instant upgrade with purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by js:
There's no such thing as future proof.

Precisely my point.

For this reason, I can only see specialist hifi manufacturers having a viable position in the computer audio market if they offer made-to-measure component-based solutions. With the HDX, I admire Naim's attempt to simplify everything in the same way a cd player is easy to set up compared to a turntable, but as you acknowledge, few people can keep spending £4,500 whenever a better one-box alternative arrives.

Ironically, instead of a comparison with cd players, I think computer audio at this level is more closely analogous to vinyl replay.

There's records, turntables, arms, cartridges, power supplies, phono stages, cables, supports, and so on. Some manufacturers may offer just about all these components separately, but many people will prefer to be able to choose from a range of manufacturers' products when they want/need to replace something, just as they can now with computers, laptops, software, remotes, hard drives, streamers, dacs, and so on. It allows for much more efficient future-proofing if you only have to change a small part of your set up when a better solution arrives.

You don't buy a whole new turntable every time your cartridge wears out.

CC (just reread my posts - sorry for all the waffle - it's late and I just want a dac!)