bi-amping nap180s with nac72+hicap or single nap180?

Hello again,

quote:

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Originally posted by masaccio:

"nap180x2 system is meaningful investigation for bi-amping?"

masaccio from TOKYO

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is....

"nap180x2 system is a meaningful ~investment~ for bi-amping?"

from masaccio

Go for it..... you can never have enough power, especially if youre using speakers that go up close to a wall or if need the amps to cut thru an acoustically challenging room.

Make no mistake, a single 250 and upwards is far more dimensional and natural sounding, but without direct comparison to that or better amps, you need'nt bother.

Also, I never thought the 72 matched the 180, though this is subjective. With that in mind, you might want to trade the 72 and hicap, or even one of the 180s in for an 82. The 82/180 is one of the best integrated amplifiers in existence. Best upgraded, in the long run, IMHO, with a supercap and then 250s or 135s.

Bottom line - go for it, and then if you have to, expand based on these suggestions.

vi

Gidday
Just wondered why you don't rate the 72 with the 180?



redeye

Thank you for lots of opinion.
But still confused,,,

A) Mix of full size and half size looks not so beautiful, but the sound is not so bad?

B) single 250 > double 180, in any situations? (also consider that I can buy new nap180 in $1500)

please post your advice...

masaccio

Hi,

the 72 and 140 are truncated but highly musical and tonally attractive. I love em. The 82 and the 180 have much wider bandwidth. Less tonally attractive but more correct sounding, octave to octave.

Matching either 72 or 140 with a 180 or 82 will show up some strangulation in the sound that is impossible for me to ignore.

I've had more positive results with 102/180, and 102/140 is also fine.

82 with 180 for me, always, but remember this is subjective.

Vik.

As I understand it you intend to use a pair of 180s whilst retaining the passive crossover.

The accepted wisdom with Naim amps (unlike many other makes) is that passive bi-amping does not repay the expense. For example, a 72 with an 250 is likely to sound better than the same pre with a pair of 140s or 180s. Similarly a 102 or 82 with a single 180 would I think be a better use of cash than a 72 and a pair of 180s.

There are plenty here who disagree, possibly influenced by hard-to-drive speakers or (as in your case) non-availability of more powerful alternatives.

The exception of course is the 135 - after several years on the forum, I have yet to see an advocate of a single 135 in a system.

In your position I would go for either (i) a 72/Hi/180 plus lots more vinyl or CDs, or (ii) if you can get it, a 102 or 82/Hi/180.

You don't mention your source (CD/turntable) - is there scope to go with option (i) above and use the spare cash on improving the source?

I certainly don't agree with those who say a 72/Hi won't make a good sound with a 180. I've heard fabulous systems based on this amplification (and an 82/Hi/140 is a classic IMO).

FWIW

Timo

Thank you very very much for your replys.

Now my understanding is,
1) bi-amping for passive speaker system is not so effective.
2) 72/180 combination is not so recommended except Tim.

Ok, well....

please see my situation.
a)My dealer asserts ONLY sells 72/hi/2x180s for $6000, never sells as separated to me.
b)My money limit is just $6000.
c)My country has only 100V AC condition. Then It is hard to drive UK240V naim gears.

and my audio condition is...
CD...NAIM CD3(I know it is the lowest model)
Speakers...Royd sintra(I like this)+ Castle Howard S2, all are passive.

Then I think the possible choice is...
1)buying new 72/hi/180s for $6000
2)Searching 120V/100V s/h naim gears within $6000

ooooh, which way should I jump?
I know most of you recommends s/h naim.
But where to buy? Hey, Shipping to JAPAN is very expensive!
(If you know good s/h dealer who has 120/100V naim gears, show me them....if possible, it's better around asia area for saving shipping cost)

Again, thank you for your opinions, Vik, redeye, James, Vuk's son, and Tim. I really happy to see all of you.

Masaccio from far east, japan

Oops, I miscalculated japanese yen - US dollar rate.

Total amount for 72/hi/2x180s is around $4300, not $6000, and money I have is $4300.

Sorry for this.

masaccio

E-mail the Naim factory to ask about reconfiguring the power supply for 100 VAC. The modification from 240 to 120 is supposed to be very easy. Japan is a large market, and I suspect Naim has made it easy to configure to Japanese current.

Regards.

Phil

Massacio,

On a different post I mentioned that I had 2 x 180s being used as monoblocks. Naim Audio North America modified the supplied SNAICs to allow them to be used this way. I was amazed at the improvement over a single 180 or 250, almost like 2 x 135s (it'll look like you have 135s to, if that's important to you, or alternatively you can upgrade to 135s later, without anyone spotting you've done it if THAT"S important to you!).

I tried the comparison again a few weeks ago to make sure and it was still there. I would like to sell the spare 180 and invest in the source, more Fraim etc but the difference is too great.

In about a week I will try again when everything is on the Fraim. Meanwhile you may consider operating the 180s this way, the wiring is simpler and Naim do not recommend passive biamping anyway. As I understand it, the mono configuration I have for each 180 is the Naim version of passive biamping. You just connect the two sets of terminals together at the speakers rather than at the SNAIC. The transient power (and possibley the continuous power too) is similar since the 180 has an unregulated supply.

If you want to try it before you buy, I think it is worthwhile and quite fun since it is so easy to compare. Just plug only one speaker wire into each of the 180s (that is left channel speaker in channel 1 of 180 #1 and right channel speaker in channel 2 of 180 #2). Then unplug the right channel speaker from 180 #2 and plug it into channel 2 of 180 #1 and hear the difference. I would be interested to know what you heard!


Jeremy

Thanks for your advice, Phil and Jeremy.

Phil, NAIM can change voltages for JAPAN.
But shipping cost is the problem. I used to send my boxes from England when I lived there. the shipping cost was very very expensive.
To see my limited budget, I donot want to use money for shipping. (and Japanese $ is very weak now...)

Jeremy, thanks for your interesting method for driving two 180s. Your advice pushed me to buy them. Now I think 72/hi/2x180 is not so bad combination for my 1st naim system. Upgrading is later, I have to see the naim sound now.

YES, Ladies and Gentlemen, I will be a naim user in this May.

thanks,

masaccio

I meant to e-mail Naim to get istructions for reconfiguring the PS. It's not a matter of rocket science or particular parts. I doubtthat Naim would ask you to ship the equipment to Salisbury for this.

Phil

Phil,

Rewiring 240V to 120V is very easy, but to 100V is not.

To drive naim kits as 100V, power tranceformers should be changed.

Changing tranceformers costs me a lot...

Anyway, I'm asking naim for further information.

masaccio

Thanks for the clarification.

Phil

Masaccio-san,

Are you sure 100V is such a big deal? The voltage in the US dips below 100V I am sure (some-one could confirm, but I believe the 110V supply is actually +/- 10% or so). The regulated supplies should not care, and the power amps may also be ok. Can you try it? Of course, if the 100V supply actually becomes 90V you could have a problem.

Jeremy