Am I being reasonable?

Thanks for the quick reply. Critically (and I should have said this) the machine doesn't play CDs anymore, that is why it is back at NANA. In over a year of ownership I never had the puck slip once.

Regards, David

...hard to believe that the dealer, after hearing this story, wouldn't just open the player in the shop and take the puck out. The player shouldn't have to go to NANA for this.

Generally, its "buyer beware" and its been three weeks after the sale(!). And he should have called you first since, after the refund, *you* would be stuck with the NANA bill. You could have avoided this bill had you known in advance.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

i've retrieved mine out of the player a number of times. all it takes is a knife and philipps-screwdriver (there have been threads on this issue before).

almost all the times this happened it was due to an user error. (me being stupid). obviously it does not play without the puck. mine does not either i think.

when it happened i had placed the puck rather loosely on the spindle in order to make a cd play that showed error with the conventional placed puck. surely something like this happened to the poor guy.

this is the one thing where my naim-system sucks.

The most important upgrade: Forget about your system.

You demonstrated a working player at your home, and then on the basis of that demonstration, the fellow bought it, correct? Did it work when you delivered it to the father's appartment?
In my opinion, if it worked fine and was purchased on the basis of a suitable demonstration, your responsibility ends there, unless you offered a warranty.
Things break all the time, mostly at the worst possible moment. In all the years I've been trafficing in audio gear, I've only ever had one piece go bad between me and the purchaser. I fixed the unit (long distance) merely to preserve my good name, not because I felt I had any responsibility; blackmail of sorts.
Being a good member of the community means not misrepresenting your gear, being honest about it's flaws (if any) and it's age. The caveat to 2 nd hand buying is there is no one to stand behind the
purchase, and thus it should be priced accordingly. Dealers should get more because they have to back up the sale.
In a recent conversation with NANA, I was told a significant percentage of repairs are due to "at home" mods or refurbs, not failure of the gear to begin with.
Follow your conscience, see what NANA has to say.
Did you have an opportunity to see what induced the problem? I'd like to say you have no further responsibility if you were honest at the get go, but, as I said before, I caved in before when I did not really feel it was my responsibility. Needless to say, I will NEVER accept even an inquiry from that particular individual again

If you give him the refund and take the player back, it then becomes a case of,

"You've fucked up my CD player and cost me upwards of $80 to ge it fixed!"

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

My CD5 will happilly play CD's without a puck 99% of the time. Is this normal ?, Things sound better with it and it's normally used but sometimes friends forget to put it on and it plays the CD happily.

You owe the buyer exactly the warranty that you offered when you sold it.

The risk is his. It would help if you set it up at his father's fouse to show that it worked, but even if you did not, he bought it, he owns it, and he's responsible for the problems that occurred after delivery.

How would you behave in his shoes? On what basis would you think the seller was responsible for the problem?

Regards.

Phil

Seems to me the buyer could have at least called you for advice before taking it back to the dealer.

I just lost and found the puck on my 3.5 and it really is no big deal to take the cover off and retrieve it. If he'd called you for help you probably could have helped him out faster and cheaper . I doubt that the flying puck and cd actually damaged anything in the 3.5. It seems like a pretty robustly built player.

I don't think I'd feel inclined to accept his request for the financial compensation...

Wow, you sure sold your 3.5 cheap! Wish it had been available when I was shopping for mine!!

Markus

Bob, Gregg,

Thx for the replies. What is new to me is that the CD disappeared inside the player aswell as the puck. Any views?

I had no way to confirm that it was working when I delivered it to his Father's appartment.

Given that it had swallowed the CD and the puck, and was no longer turning CDs I did reccomend that he bring it to Innovative Audio to have them remove it - not sure why they did not do it there and then

Regards, David

I see that Innovative Audio is up to thier same old tricks. I hated those A-holes when I lived in NY, and I guess they deserve nothing but derision after I've gone as well.

Permit me to make two points:

First, I've seen a puck go flying off into a machine once or twice in my day, but I have NEVER seen a disk follow. The cd sits in a circular well whose sides come up over the disk edge about .5 cm of so. How could the disk go flying off of the spindle unless the user lifted up the player and started fiddling with it.

here's what i think happened. I think your buyer incorrectly placed the puck on the disk and then experienced a "flying puck" problem. Then, without bothering to remove the disk, be lifted up the player and started shaking it around in order to dislodge the puck. This probably caused the cd to fall in. Whether the cd caused additional damage, i don't know.

Baring actual damage, I think those A-holes at Innovative did not bother to retreive the puck (or the cd) before relieving your buyer of his $80 deposit. (BTW, I've never heard of a dealer collecting a deposit to send the unit in for repair. What kinda shit is that?!!! Typical Innovative Audio!!)

My guess is that once the puck and cd are removed from the player, it will work fine.

Judd

Long time no speak, thanks for the input. BTW your old Hi-cap moved onwards to other places.

Hope all is well, David

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=67019385&f=48019385&m=5801968295

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

No coincidence at all - too highly related posts. Thanks, I hadn't seen that.

What are you thoughts?

Regards, David

It seems as though Innovative Audio did look inside the machine after all.

Now there is no sound coming out of the analogue output stage. Jude has fucked up the player (if it's the same guy) and now he's trying his luck...

My girlfriend was clumsy enough not to centre the puck properly, once. Fortunately, I was watching at the time and I said something before she had chance to close the drawer.

The guy was clumsy, and he wants you to take responsibility for it.

What a low-life!

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

quote:

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You could make him pay the 80, accept the mended player back and sell it to someone who is not a chimp!

---

Sounds like a good plan to me!

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

There is no guarantee that this thing will just cost $80 to fix, that was just the deposit!

He curently wants me to pay all the costs and give him a refund.

Regards, David

...doesn't have a leg to stand on given the conditions of sale, the time that has passed, etc.

Its up to you as to how nice you want to be. Keep in mind that a potential purchaser can query Naim re:the unit via the serial number and Naim will report that it has been serviced. This could be used by a potential buyer to bargain for a lower price (is a unit that *required* service less desirable than a unit that has not?).

Just a thought.

- GregB

Insert Witty Signature Line Here

You are obviously a nice guy with a conscience.

However, you sold him goods in perfect working order, he was careless and damaged those goods himself.

So, don't be Soft Lad, tell the guy to fuck off!

Regards,

Steve.

It's just a pleasure to hear music as it was intended to be heard.

So long as you delivered it with the transport screw.

My guess is the repair will be minor.

It is certainly a nice gesture if you took back the player, but you shouldn't in any circumstance have to pay for the repair. You sold at a very fair price, and you did so with no warranty. If you were a dealer, you would have offered a warranty, but charged, what, $3-400 more?

--Eric

Wondering of Innovative tried the player with the same disk AND the same puck after they fished it out. I would have tried the player with a different puck (and also, perhaps, and differant disk) after having fished them out.

David, what do you mean about my old hicap being "on to other places". Did it die, or are you just saying that you sold it (in favor of a CDX, perhaps).

Judd

I upgraded to CDX and it was the older of my two Hi-Caps so on its merry way it went for (I think) the same price I paid you!

Regards, David

I just sent the purchaser an e-mail saying that I would make a decision when the facts are available from NANA and not before. Based on what they say I may do something out of conscience rather than legal obligation.

Regards, David

David Quigley said:

quote:

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Based on what they say I may do something out of conscience rather than legal obligation.

---

Hold on! The guy has had the player for three weeks. Over that time he could have done anything to it. He could have wiped his arse on it for all you know...

Three weeks, and it was working when he got it. The player is no longer your responsibility, was in working order and sent "in good faith".

99% of us on this forum would accept the situation as being part of the risk of buying second hand (providing it arrived in good working order and in the condition described).

Andrew

Andrew Randle
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." Frank Zappa

In Jude's second message he says that the puck wasn't the problem. Well if the puck wasn't the problem then how the hell does the puck, and CD, end up in the machine - I'm sorry but that's just bizarre

Seems to me that it's not your fault David - simple operator error. The CD going into the player has probably caused the terminal problem.

Jay

Yabba, dabba, doooooo

Transport screw was carefully put in place from underneath the player and tightened appropriately. Jude tells me that the problem ocurred when he put his first CD into the player. This was more than three weeks after I delivered the player to his Father's appartment.

I still have no idea how a CD ends up inside a 3.5 under normal circumstances.

Regards, David