Doc's - Is this safe?

recent thinking is that they hear nothing before that first breath of fresh air.

Bob

I think it is safe to say that it is safe, and possibly pointless too.

The real risk here is that any aberrant personality traits she may show in later life will be blamed on incorrect music choices at this tender age. She may blame you, your wife may blame you, her social worker may play tracks to the court in evidence etc.

Actually this was almost the basis of a sketch we did at med school. Two of us dressed as in-utero twins (complete with cord and placenta) sitting on a bench saying things like 'god I wish she'd have another fag' etc etc.

Do not play 'Should I Stay or Should I go Now...'. May induce prem delivery.

Bruce

I know it's probably pointless, but for some reason that I do not understand, I believe in this sort of stuff. I just can't wait to show her everything. You know how it is..

As a non-parent I don't, I just think you are utterly daft.

I also love your enthusiasm!

Bruce

Sorry Rasher big digress here... Bruce I heard the CDS3 at the Bristol Show today for the first time. You were definitely right!!!! DAMN

Regards
Clive

Stop worrying about the music. Just buy her a decent train-set.

Nime

When my wife was pregnant with our first one we saw a program on TV about parents reading out books to the bump, claiming that it increased the IQ (of the baby, not so sure about the parents). As a piss take I started reciting sums to my wife's bump which became a sort of standing joke throughout the pregnancy; my now five years old excels at maths....

It was scientifically proven years ago (By the Sun & The Mirror) that mothers to be who regularly watched the Street of an evening (Corrie Straße, as it's known here in Germany) had more relaxed and chilled out kids, who later themselves at the sound of that hypnotising theme tune fell straight into a heavenly lull of silent slumber alongside a snoring beer and stew smelling feether, innit.


Fritz Von I can do science me

That made me laugh Fritzy

Regards
Clive

Excellent, Best medicine on earth, innit.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
recent thinking is that they hear nothing before that first breath of fresh air.

Bob

Bob this is in direct contradiction to everything I've read and experienced. We played our two loads of Mozart. Neither has so far written a major symphony but they are both musically aware and the older one in particular is very talented. Who knows if there's any link but they definitely responded very visibly to the sounds. No doubt about it.

When my mum was expecting me she had a bad rash on her stomach for a while which caused her no end of itchiness and and she scratched at it continuously. My dad was a fighter pilot and we lived at various airforce bases.

I now work in a sandpaper factory, collect emery boards and live in a caravan at the end of runway 2 at Manchester Airport.

Loose matches are not allowed in my place.

cheers

Ross

The headphones don't work so well and she doesn't seem to respond to Brian Eno, but being female, you put the phone down there and she's happy for hours.

I'm trying to get my wife to take baths instead of showers, because the poor baby must think it rains here every day.

Rasher, From the Topic wording I honestly thought we were discussing footwear.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1432495.stm
go easy on the Tool or Cradle of Filth
Martin

I tried to smother my baby brother when I was three. What a guilt complex to have for the rest of your life if I'd been successful. Mothers of today ... Don't watch anything remotely instructive in this field.

quote:

Originally posted by bob mccluckie:
recent thinking is that they hear nothing before that first breath of fresh air.

Bob

By whom? This is definitely not recent scientific thinking. Neonatology is a rapidly advancing field, and the more we understand every day, the more surprised we are about development of neural areas within the brain (and how early on it is). Current thinking is that generally a fetus should sense low frequency sounds more readily than higher registers, because lower registers can propogate through amniotic fluid and then through cranial bone to the auditory system. Higher registers are better sensed via air conduction (which is why these would be muffled). Even the terms are incorrect though, as we are frankly, unsure 100% about forebrain development (where we decode for instance, incoming signals like pain...up till this point they're just nociceptive signals passed up through the hindbrain...the forebrain calls it "pain"). Evidence does suggest that the developing auditory system picks up stimuli and gets better at it the more developed it is....wether the forebrain decodes this as "music" is another q entirely (I do go on don't I , don't worry, nearly there). I also doubt wether this would harm the fetus (you don't have Cerwin Vega headphones do you ?) but then again, it may not have any effect at all (so why do it?)....research so far is incomplete.

(to put it in perspective, at one point the baby will descend through a birth canal similar to me pushing you head first through a tunnel the size of a washing machine door...enough to squeeze most of the air out of your lungs anyway......out into a temp drop that will seem polar (it's well known that a baby's first cry is "what the?...PUT ME BACK...it was warm in there").....i don't think baby will mind some music)

I am absolutely astonished that you haven't all sent the men in white coats around, but are actually backing me up here.
Thanks guys.

quote:

I am absolutely astonished that you haven't all sent the men in white coats around

They're on their way, and they're always discrete when they come knocking

Regards
Clive

OK, let us get a bit philosophical here (I've got some very dull paperwork to do and could do with the intellectual stimulation).

Whilst I've no doubt the baby responds/receives to external stimuli (indeeed sound is one of the few factors of its millieu not rigorously controlled by the maternal environment) surely the issue is not that wether it can hear but wether it can listen.

In other words, does it have a dfferent appreciation of the sound it is exposed too according to anything other than volume? Do certain sounds have an arousing effect, a calming effect? Do certain sounds imprint for later life, in other words will the infant have a different response after being born to sounds played previosuly in-utero, or will the exposure predicate future aptitudes and interests (that seems much more unlikely to me). All this depends on how we believe the foetus processes, remembers and intellectualises sounds (as opposed to wether sound reaches through the amniotic fluid). Interesting stuff.

Final thought, perhaps the popularity of 'The Dark Side Of The Moon ' is related to our continous in-utero exposure to the sound of a heartbeat. Canny move by the Floyd boys to put that at the beginning I reckon!

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Woodhouse:
OK, let us get a bit philosophical here (I've got some very dull paperwork to do and could do with the intellectual stimulation).

The biomedical baby? A little machine growing in the womb?

Occam's razor is supposed to slice away what is irrelevant - but who knows what is irrelevant when it comes to human developement? Quantitative approaches to matters qualitative.

Surely the empirical approach must eventually be abandoned in favour of a holistic approach to understanding ourselves.

Deane

I'm saying the same thing. Namely that the 'effect' of such stimuli has to be considered at a far more complex level than just wether it can hear the sound or not.

At this point I'll direct you to one of my favourite scientific papers, although in fairness it is much criticised now. The discussions that have followed are erudite and fascinating.

Here.

Bruce

Cheers Bruce. Looks interesting.

Look at the responses and citations to follow the ways this has developed and the ethical challenge it has posed. See the box top right for links.

Bruce