1959 - Year that changed J*** (doco on Beeb4 now)

....Archive footage of Dave Brubeck and Dizzy Gilespie on tonight as well ....!

Really enjoyed it. Now listening to Dizzy Gillespie Jazz 625.

Am going to go and track down the HMV jazz sale, and some comparisons, and get Dave Brubeck 'Time Out', Mungus 'Ah Um', and maybe Ornette Coleman 'The Shape of Jazz to Come'. I might even give in and get the 'Kind of Blue' anniversary box set. I already have the CD and the Miles Davis & John Coltrane box set (1).

I always thought that I didn't like Mingus, but I was blown away by one track they played in that section that sounded like chase music from a 1970's cop movie soundtrack by Ron Carter.

EDIT: Done, much credit card damage across, Play, HMV and Amazon, bought all three albums, and the 'Kind of Blue' box set.

Munch: The reel tape sounds interesting, I wonder who might have something to play it on?

quote:

Am going to go and track down ... and get Dave Brubeck 'Time Out'... Ornette Coleman 'The Shape of Jazz to Come'.

Just ordered Dave Brubeck's Time Out and Ornette Coleman's The Shape of Jazz to Come ... already got Kind of Blue.

BTW there are some Miles classics coming out on high quality pressings next month according to RC.

And I didn't even know I liked modern jazz - I guess this music inspired the Soft Machine, who I love, so it should be no surprise that this stuff sounds great to me.

If you liked the show then take 5 to click here to see Jazz 625 - The Dave Brubeck Quartet

ATB Rotf

It was great seeing Mingus's missus talking about him. I love Mingus, but Black Saint and Sinner Lady is my fave. Ah Um is great tho. Ornette Coleman came across as a great bloke.

Time Out, and The Shape of Jazz to Come
Two great, classic albums!!!

Ornette Coleman. Now there's an artist that should be in "Artists surprised not to see discussed" column.

Shape of Jazz to Come . . . . incredible, incredible album!!! Completely awestruck the first time I heard it! Hard to describe the feeling . . . . something along the lines of, so this is what I've been hearing, so prevalent in so many styles of music! For lack of better description.

Shape of Jazz to Come really deserves a thread all it's own! Be fun to disect that album!!!

Best,
Max

p.s. if you like "Time Out", you should check out Dave Brubeck "Time Further Out".
p.s.s. Reminds me, need to find a vinyl copy of "Time Out". Wondering if there is a good remastered vinyl copy available.

Hi Max

RC says this should be available

DAVE BRUBECK - TIME OUT (QUIEX VINYL 200g) CLASSIC RECORDS LCLA8192Q

Dave Brubeck's defining masterpiece, Time Out is one of the most rhythmically innovative albums in jazz history, the first to consciously explore time signatures outside of the standard 4/4 beat or 3/4 waltz time. Buoyed by Paul Desmond's hit 'Take Five,' Time Out became an unexpectedly huge success, and still ranks as one of the most popular jazz albums ever. That's a testament to Brubeck and Desmond's abilities as composers, because Time Out is full of challenges both subtle and overt — it's just that they're not jarring. It doesn't just sound sophisticated — it really is sophisticated music, which lends itself to cerebral appreciation, yet never stops swinging. Countless other musicians built on its pioneering experiments, yet it's amazingly accessible for all its advanced thinking, a rare feat in any art form. This 200g Classic Records pressing is the best sounding version you’ll ever hear and it belongs in even the most rudimentary jazz collection.

1. Blue Rondo A La Turk
2. Strange Meadow Lark
3. Take Five
4. Three To Get Ready
5. Kathy's Waltz
6. Everybody's Jumpin'
7. Pick Up Sticks

HTH Rotf

Thank you, ROTF!

Gonna order a copy right now! Joe Morellos' iconic drum solo on "Take Five" is such a treat to listen. Classic example of theme and motif development going on.

Best,
Max

quote:

Originally posted by Max Bass:
p.s.s. Reminds me, need to find a vinyl copy of "Time Out". Wondering if there is a good remastered vinyl copy available.

The 200g version is also available from the Acoustic Sounds website.

quote:

Originally posted by Max Bass:
p.s.s. Reminds me, need to find a vinyl copy of "Time Out". Wondering if there is a good remastered vinyl copy available.

If you can find an original vinyl LP, it is simply superb. Mine cost £3.99 s/h.

Just to let people know that the BBC4 Friday night Jazz season is continuing tonight with Arena about 'cool' followed by Jazz 625 with 'The Modern Jazz Quartet', and both are repeated after midnight.

Will record Arena, and give the MJQ a miss, already heard enough Milt Jackson from Ken Clarke's Radio4 programme earlier his week.

Wish I had given Arena a miss, what a dreadful programme. A mish mash of clips, overlapping music, discordantly mixed over some ambient sounds. About ten minutes worth of incoherent script, padded with random quotes.

Initially I thought this was some odd programme dragged from the archives, probably early 70's and used to fill the schedule, but it was made this year judging by the end credits.

Last Friday's programmes were excellent, this was pitiful.

quote:

Originally posted by Max Bass:

Ornette Coleman. Now there's an artist that should be in "Artists surprised not to see discussed" column.

Shape of Jazz to Come . . . . incredible, incredible album!!!

Agree heartily, Max, although actually even though Ornette is an artist who should be discussed more here, I'm not all that surprised that he isn't.

Best,
Fred

Fred - I would be interested to know which of his albums you would recommend. I have and like The Shape of Jazz To Come but am not very familiar with the rest of his work.

Thanks.

JF

This Is Our Music



More great classic Ornette quartet, in the mold of The Shape of Jazz To Come, except with Ed Blackwell on drums instead of Billy Higgins ... both feature Don Cherry and Charlie Haden, of course.



Something Else!!!!



Even earlier Ornette, 1958, and with piano, which Ornette would soon abandon. Great tunes, great playing, and on the verge of changing the shape of jazz to come.

Best,
Fred

This is excellent too, bought it as a double LP when it came out - interesting contrast of acoustic line up on one disk, electric on the other.

regards,
mat

Thanks for the suggestions; will definitely check them out.

Would also be interested in comments on whether this one would also be a good choice - (I have the opportunity to get the LP):



It's the immediate predecessor of Shape of Jazz and apparently gives a preview of the style of that album.

Thanks.

JF

quote:

Originally posted by jazzfan:
Thanks for the suggestions; will definitely check them out.

Would also be interested in comments on whether this one would also be a good choice - (I have the opportunity to get the LP): Tomorrow Is the Question

It's the immediate predecessor of Shape of Jazz and apparently gives a preview of the style of that album.

I haven't heard the whole album, but it does have his classic tune Turnaround. From what I gather, this album bridges the transition from Something Else!!!! to The Shape of Jazz To Come ... Ornette had dropped piano from the group, but had not yet hooked up with his cornerstone bassist Charlie Haden.

The snippets I've heard sound wonderful.

Best,
Fred

Thanks for the feedback - I have just ordered This Is Our Music and will get Tomorrow Is The Question as well.

I was a little surprised at how easy it was to "get into" Shape Of Jazz after the reports I had read about the "free" nature of the album (and what some of his contemporary musicians apparently said about his music at the time) but my experience with it has encouraged me to try out more of his work.

JF

I have both TIOM and TITQ and like them a lot. Generally I prefer later, more experimental stuff. Nineteen SIXTY nine (69) is more important for Jazz than 59 IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by willem:
I have both TIOM and TITQ and like them a lot. Generally I prefer later, more experimental stuff. Nineteen SIXTY nine (69) is more important for Jazz than 59 IMHO.

You may prefer 1969 jazz, and of course no one can argue with that, but to extrapolate from your preference to say that 1969 was more important for jazz than 1959 is putting the cart way before the horse.

Obviously, the music of 1969 could not have happened without the music of 1959; further, they were equally important. Just considering four of the albums released that year -- Kind of Blue by Miles Davis, Giant Steps by John Coltrane, The Shape of Jazz to Come by Ornette Coleman, and Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus -- is proof enough of that.

Best,
Fred

I would agree Fred. I'm always a bit saddened that Monk didn't hit any great peaks at the time (a favourite of mine).

Hi Fred-

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fred simon:
Obviously, the music of 1969 could not have happened without the music of 1959 . . . . Just considering four of the albums released that year -- Kind of Blue by Miles Davis, Giant Steps by John Coltrane, The Shape of Jazz to Come by Ornette Coleman, and Mingus Ah Um by Charles Mingus -- is proof enough of that.



WOW! All landmark albums! Hadn't realized they were all released in the same year! That's amazing!!!
Makes sense, since the music was moving in the same direction. These albums all seem related. Especially Giant Steps the tune. And [I]Shape of Jazz to Come[/I

By this I mean, with Giant Steps, wasn't Coltrane trying to move away from any key center, or tonic? Same with Colman's SOJTC. Not having to pay for a piano player to be in on the session.

Best,
Max

p.s. Great thread!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Max Bass:

By this I mean, with Giant Steps, wasn't Coltrane trying to move away from any key center, or tonic? Same with Coleman's SOJTC.

Hi Max,

Well, here's how I hear it ... Ornette was trying to move away from any chord changes at all ... it was a gradual process, but he was trying to free up chord/song structure, rhythm, melody, just about everything. His earlier stuff was blues and jazz based in the songs themselves (the blues Turnaround, for example), but once the blowing started all bets were off.

Coltrane did eventually into similar territory much later, albeit with his own personal version of it, which really didn't sound much like Ornette's. On Giant Steps, the song itself, he was definitely avoiding a tonal/key center. But unlike Ornette trying to move away from changes, Coltrane avoided a tonal center by actually getting even deeper into harmonic changes, a labyrinth of ii-v-i patterns moving in oblique relationships from each other, often a minor third away ... an intervalic distance pretty much guaranteed to subvert any sense of a home tonal/key center. By the way, Beethoven often made use of this idea.

Best,
Fred

quote:

By the way, Beethoven often made use of this idea.

Interesting stuff Fred about Ornette and Coltrane, plenty to re-explore, or listen to in more depth.

As regards Beethoven did you mean he moved towards this in later string quartets and piano sonatas or more generally?

regards,
mat

Interesting indeed , if ONLY I could understand even a single word.