102/180->282/180 or 202/200
Posted by: Mats S on 16 October 2003
Hi,
I have a 102/NAPC, 180/HI-CAP, which I'm about to upgrade. To get a better sound, would you recommend me to go for the new 202/200 set or a new282/old180 set-up? I will go to my dealer and audit these two alternatives, but I would like a word of advice and opinions from You before that.
Regards
Mats
I have a 102/NAPC, 180/HI-CAP, which I'm about to upgrade. To get a better sound, would you recommend me to go for the new 202/200 set or a new282/old180 set-up? I will go to my dealer and audit these two alternatives, but I would like a word of advice and opinions from You before that.
Regards
Mats
Posted on: 16 October 2003 by Gunnar Jansson
Hej Mats!
I would go for the 282 and keep the 180.
This is what I´m gonna do myself. (And later adding a 250).
Mvh
Gunnar
I would go for the 282 and keep the 180.
This is what I´m gonna do myself. (And later adding a 250).
Mvh
Gunnar
Posted on: 16 October 2003 by Mr_Sukebe
I've heard a dem of a 180 against a 200, and the 200 murdered it (IMO).
Having said that, I think that Gunnar is correct in suggesting that you should focus on the pre-amp now, then upgrade the power amp later when you have funds available to do it properly.
Having said that, I think that Gunnar is correct in suggesting that you should focus on the pre-amp now, then upgrade the power amp later when you have funds available to do it properly.
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Mats S
Hi Mr Sukebe,
<I've heard a dem of a 180 against a 200, and the 200 murdered it (IMO).>
Do you think the 202 murders the 102 as well (IYO)?
Regards
Mats
<I've heard a dem of a 180 against a 200, and the 200 murdered it (IMO).>
Do you think the 202 murders the 102 as well (IYO)?
Regards
Mats
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Bob Edwards
Mats--
I'm with Gunnar--go for the 282, especially since you have a Hicap you can power it with. As good as the 200 is, and I think it is quite a bit better than the 180, I would be absolutely astonished if a 202/Hi/200 was better than a 282/Hi/180.
Best,
Bob
I'm with Gunnar--go for the 282, especially since you have a Hicap you can power it with. As good as the 200 is, and I think it is quite a bit better than the 180, I would be absolutely astonished if a 202/Hi/200 was better than a 282/Hi/180.
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Wolf
I just bought a s/h 82 with 2 hicaps. The sound is really wonderful and certainly makes my 150 amp seem to perform better. Guess it's from better electronics upstream, more punch and drive.
glenn
Life is analogue
glenn
Life is analogue
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Bananahead
My upgrade path this year has been like this
Meridian CD - 72 - hi - 180 to
CDX2 - 72 - hi -180 to
CDX2 - 282 - hi - 180 to
CDX2 - 282 - new hi - 250
The CDX2 was absolutely fantastic. Exactly as expected.
The 282 blew me away. Almost as much of an improvement as the CDX2 and it improved all my other sources (including TV) as well.
The newhi - 250 I am still learning to live with. Its only been a few weeks and I am currently playing with speaker positioning so can't realy comment.
The 282 - hi - 180 worked so well that I recommend it without any hesitation whatsoever.
Nana
Meridian CD - 72 - hi - 180 to
CDX2 - 72 - hi -180 to
CDX2 - 282 - hi - 180 to
CDX2 - 282 - new hi - 250
The CDX2 was absolutely fantastic. Exactly as expected.
The 282 blew me away. Almost as much of an improvement as the CDX2 and it improved all my other sources (including TV) as well.
The newhi - 250 I am still learning to live with. Its only been a few weeks and I am currently playing with speaker positioning so can't realy comment.
The 282 - hi - 180 worked so well that I recommend it without any hesitation whatsoever.
Nana
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Charlezz
I think it depends on your speakers...
I have got a CDX/Nac52/Supercap/Nap180/BwN803 and I know the best step for me would be a better amp , maybe say Nap 135's and not a XPS, or Fraim.
The N803 do need more power than the Nap180 can afford....
Charles
ps: Do you know if I could use an olive style's cd player (CDX or CDS2) with a XPS2??
I have got a CDX/Nac52/Supercap/Nap180/BwN803 and I know the best step for me would be a better amp , maybe say Nap 135's and not a XPS, or Fraim.
The N803 do need more power than the Nap180 can afford....
Charles
ps: Do you know if I could use an olive style's cd player (CDX or CDS2) with a XPS2??
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by andy c
Good thread, because this coming weekend I'm borrowing an XPS2, 282 and a 250. I have a budget that will cope with two out of these three. (see my personal profile for current system)
I suspect the 250 will come out 3rd out of this lot, but my dealer is happy to let me experiment.. I'll post the results if anyone is interested...
and yes you can used an XPS2 with the CD players you mention...I've just checked that in my CDX2 instructions...
I suspect the 250 will come out 3rd out of this lot, but my dealer is happy to let me experiment.. I'll post the results if anyone is interested...
and yes you can used an XPS2 with the CD players you mention...I've just checked that in my CDX2 instructions...
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Charlezz
Andy: Thank you for your answer.
Assuming the Nac102 is the weakest link in your system and that you have SBL, I am sure you will go for the Nac282 and the XPS2!!!
Tell me more...
Charles
Assuming the Nac102 is the weakest link in your system and that you have SBL, I am sure you will go for the Nac282 and the XPS2!!!
Tell me more...
Charles
Posted on: 20 October 2003 by Charlezz
quote:
Another reason is that the 282/250 will also make the turntable sound sweeter!
Perfectly right! That may be a good reason for choosing the 250...
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by andy c
I think it will be a close thing. I do need to change the K9 cartridge to poss Dynavector as well, and get a stageline, but that will be later. I don't play enough LP's now to warrant a wholesale TT upgrade.
My dealer suggests I'll end up with 282/XPS2 but I do want to hear the SBL's being driven by the 250 as well. I will no doubt end up with all three within 18 months or so but can only afford 2 now...
I'm not considering olive series as my wife likes the look of the new stuff - and that is a factor...
My dealer suggests I'll end up with 282/XPS2 but I do want to hear the SBL's being driven by the 250 as well. I will no doubt end up with all three within 18 months or so but can only afford 2 now...
I'm not considering olive series as my wife likes the look of the new stuff - and that is a factor...
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by Bob Edwards
Andy--
Unfortunate you can't consider the olive range, because for the price of a 282 you could pick up a 52/Super...
And SBLs and a 250 just sing together...
Best,
Bob
Unfortunate you can't consider the olive range, because for the price of a 282 you could pick up a 52/Super...
And SBLs and a 250 just sing together...
Best,
Bob
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by Paul Davies
quote:
Originally posted by Charlezz:
I think it depends on your speakers...
I have got a CDX/Nac52/Supercap/Nap180/BwN803 and I know the best step for me would be a better amp , maybe say Nap 135's and not a XPS, or Fraim.
The N803 do need more power than the Nap180 can afford....
How do you know? I ask because when I compared CDX/52/SCAP/250 with CDX/XPS/102/SCAP/250, the latter system, with better source and lesser amp was so much better.The speakers used for the comaprison were Linn Keilidhs.
If you do plan to upgrade, why not try such a comparision first? You might be surprised at the result.
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by andy c
Bob,
Fair point u make there (said in a Yoda type voice - lol).
Am quite looking forwards to a few days with the kit mentioned... first time I've been in as nice a position as this in a while re my hi-fi,
The question is will I be able to live without whather has to go back?
quote:
Unfortunate you can't consider the olive range, because for the price of a 282 you could pick up a 52/Super...
Fair point u make there (said in a Yoda type voice - lol).
Am quite looking forwards to a few days with the kit mentioned... first time I've been in as nice a position as this in a while re my hi-fi,
The question is will I be able to live without whather has to go back?
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by andy c
AG,
thanks for the thought, but Naim can only do this to power amps and power supplies... FYI
thanks for the thought, but Naim can only do this to power amps and power supplies... FYI
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by Charlezz
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Davies:
How do you know? I ask because when I compared CDX/52/SCAP/250 with CDX/XPS/102/SCAP/250, the latter system, with better source and lesser amp was so much better.The speakers used for the comaprison were Linn Keilidhs.
If you do plan to upgrade, why not try such a comparision first? You might be surprised at the result.
I tried a my Bw803 with a new 250 , and it was really better...
Because I have don't have enough money to buy Nap300, I will surely go for Nap135's, in order to go with all my olive style 's range...
Charles
Posted on: 22 October 2003 by Paul Davies
quote:
Originally posted by Charlezz:
I tried a my Bw803 with a new 250 , and it was really better...
Because I have don't have enough money to buy Nap300, I will surely go for Nap135's, in order to go with all my olive style 's range...
Charles
No surprises there - the NAP 250 should outperform the NAP 180, all other things being equal.
However, that's not quite what I asked, so I'll try again: Have you tried comparing an upgraded source (amps unchanged) with an upgraded power amp (source unchanged)? If you haven't, I suggest that it's a comparison worth doing before you decide.
Posted on: 23 October 2003 by Mats S
Bananahead, others
If you remember my first post in the thread, I'm looking for a way to best upgrade my 102/napsc/180/hi-cap.
So I went to my Naim store yesterday evening. We had arranged a demo 6 PM. We got started 7.30. My dealer is everything what Naim is not. Slow. But I forgive him as always thanks to his exentric charm.
He was out of 202/200 that day (sold same day), so we went on with comparing 282/180+napsc+hi-cap and my good old 102/180+napsc+hi-cap using CDX2 as source since I'm considering buying it. We used Totem Hawk speakers.
I listened for 30 minutes on the 102/180. I had a stupid smile on my face already after 30 seconds. To hear that my 102/180 amplification system was capabale of reproducing such music, I could hardly beleive. Weighty, spacy, high-energy and calm all at the same time. I muttered to myself why on earth I should ever change my amp set-up, if upgarding the source end gives these results.
After those 30 minutes we switched out the old 102 for the new 282. I listened carefully for the change to come. It was better but could not put my finger on what was actually better at first. Then I suddenly looked at my foot. It was moving up and down, back and forward and was spinning around like Beckhams'. It did not do that with the 102. Not as much. It was like a better drummer and bass guitarist were playing the same songs.
Then I got an idead. I asked my dealer to connect a Moon CD player about equally priced to the CDX2, to the 282/180. It was not far behind at all actually. A little to bright formy taste, but otherwise supringsly close.
When time was 8.45 PM I stumbled out the demo room and talked to my dealer about the experience. I said to him I ranked the CDX2 as a 9 out of 10 in added value to my current source, but gave the 282 'only' a 5 over the 102. We want back to the demo room still talking. He suddenly looked funny and said ' I'm very, very sorry, but I forgot to unplug the XPS2 to the CDX2. Let's do another audit next week.'.
Keep you posted.
Mats
I stopped when
If you remember my first post in the thread, I'm looking for a way to best upgrade my 102/napsc/180/hi-cap.
So I went to my Naim store yesterday evening. We had arranged a demo 6 PM. We got started 7.30. My dealer is everything what Naim is not. Slow. But I forgive him as always thanks to his exentric charm.
He was out of 202/200 that day (sold same day), so we went on with comparing 282/180+napsc+hi-cap and my good old 102/180+napsc+hi-cap using CDX2 as source since I'm considering buying it. We used Totem Hawk speakers.
I listened for 30 minutes on the 102/180. I had a stupid smile on my face already after 30 seconds. To hear that my 102/180 amplification system was capabale of reproducing such music, I could hardly beleive. Weighty, spacy, high-energy and calm all at the same time. I muttered to myself why on earth I should ever change my amp set-up, if upgarding the source end gives these results.
After those 30 minutes we switched out the old 102 for the new 282. I listened carefully for the change to come. It was better but could not put my finger on what was actually better at first. Then I suddenly looked at my foot. It was moving up and down, back and forward and was spinning around like Beckhams'. It did not do that with the 102. Not as much. It was like a better drummer and bass guitarist were playing the same songs.
Then I got an idead. I asked my dealer to connect a Moon CD player about equally priced to the CDX2, to the 282/180. It was not far behind at all actually. A little to bright formy taste, but otherwise supringsly close.
When time was 8.45 PM I stumbled out the demo room and talked to my dealer about the experience. I said to him I ranked the CDX2 as a 9 out of 10 in added value to my current source, but gave the 282 'only' a 5 over the 102. We want back to the demo room still talking. He suddenly looked funny and said ' I'm very, very sorry, but I forgot to unplug the XPS2 to the CDX2. Let's do another audit next week.'.
Keep you posted.
Mats
I stopped when
Posted on: 23 October 2003 by Gunnar Jansson
Mats!
But your conclusions are still valid.
(that regardless if a xps is there or not)
IMHexperince Source first, then pre amp etc.
Gunnar
But your conclusions are still valid.
(that regardless if a xps is there or not)
IMHexperince Source first, then pre amp etc.
Gunnar