For *.wav tracks into nDAC, what's better: NDS (or NDX or ND5x) into nDAC or USB straight into nDAC?

I think the general consensus amongst DAC/SERVER owners is that wav files fed through the unitiserve or hdx to a DAC sound better than wav files on a USB into the DAC directly.  Does that help at all?

And here lies the problem of this forum, too much thinking and regurgitating what others have written elsewhere. It's nice to know what you are thinking but it doesn't make it a fact.

Not so sure it's sure Jon.

And what about convenience? Pretty non existent in the approach you are contemplating

Here's a thought, how about less worrying about the nth degree of SQ and listening to some more music instead....

if someone has a problem with this forum, this course is not compuslory

My experience is, it's a damn fine product, even better with a 555PS. Delivers great music with just about any Naim amp. My experience also tells me your better of worrying less and listen to more music instead...

Cheers

PS. Ups you deleted half of your earlier post, I hope my answer to your question makes sense nevertheless....

Naim position the Naim DAC as its best DAC (at least in its streaming audio product range) ahead of the launch of the NDS which has an even better DAC.

So leaving the NDS aside (for me when its ready), the Naim DAC wants the best PCM it can get - PCM being a stream of 0s and 1s that constitute digital music, that it being a DAC (Digital to Analogue Convertor) is gonna change in to analogue music suitable for an amplifier. 

For the most part it doesn't know whether its PCM came from the NDX, ND5, UnitiServe, a CD Transport or a Mac Mini or a Mini Disc Player - it just plays what it is given. The quality of what it is given along its S/PDIF connection determines what it can achieve. It does its best to get rid of jitter, and if we use an optical cable then it will not have electrical noise to deal with. So if you use a rotten transport then it probably won't sound as good as when you use a top level transport like the Meridian G08.2. So, with the NDX, being a good transport then the Naim DAC can work near optimum. If you use the superb little Mac Mini as a transport then this will give anything a run for its money, and if you like iTunes, you get a great user interface. 

However, if you use a USB stick then the Naim DAC has to extract the PCM digital music itself. It you give it a WAV file then it does this with ease and can convert the digital music it has extracted to analogue without problem. It sounds as good as anything I have heard through the Naim DAC with a decent USB stick (not an expensive one, just one that makes a nice firm connection). 

The NDX has its own DAC so can do this on its own - although I prefer the sound of the Naim DAC. 

I can't hear enough of an improvement to change my Mac Mini + Naim DAC/555PS for the US/NDX/555PS/Naim DAC/555PS (which may well sound a bit better, but would break my bank) - and with the advent of the NDS (or perhaps the KDS: I must do the demo) then the point is mute because the NDS/555PS sounded better to me than the very expensive HDX/NDX/Naim DAC/555PS. 

So less in this case is not always better because isolation comes in to it .... it is better to separate noisy computer USB from the DAC (as computer USB shoves noise up its length because its powered); USB sticks don't have this shortcoming. You can engineer around this shortcoming, but the top DACs from the likes of Naim and BAD choose not to.

So in the end the best thing to do is take TPs advice - have a listen. I can theorise and explain in depth why I think A should sound better than B, but listen and you'll hear. I believe the NDS sounds so good because it throws away all that Coax stuff and replaces it with internal optics, but then I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows and that Lionel Messi is coming on loan to Portman Road next year, and Roy Hodgson will become England manager.  

Jon

Sounds like you've got a hankering to sell the nDAC and buy an NDS.

I found the SQ of a USB stick was slightly inferior to a good quality CD transport. The fact that the nDAC processes the wav file will generate noise and therefore jitter. As far as I understand it, data from the USB input isn't reclocked. If so, any jitter will remain.

That's also great clarification, Fatcat.

Cheers!

Jon

Fatcat, USB memory sticks are file devices, so they are mounted like discs. The file is read, processed and then turned into a PCM (i2s) data stream by the NDAC (NDX/NDS etc). This clock is controlled by the ndac, and is then oversampled by the ndac. 

This is quite different from SPDIF, where the tclock is inferred in the signal, where any jitter in it adjusts the 'meaning' of the signal, and so is reclocked by the ndac to stabalize it.

However with USB  it's the file processing and any RF leaking from the USB differential serial line that can effect delicate circuitry if not fully decoupled.

Simon

Isn't that what I said.

Oh, except for the RF. Who'd have thought RF could cause a problem.

Remember that the "user interface" for playing music from a USB stick directly on a DAC isn't exactly the best experience in the world - remember the DAC has absolutely no GUI - it's a convenience feature which was asked for but I would never use it as a serious source of music replay!

I *CURRENTLY* have both an HDX and an NDX into a DAC and love the results they give me - nServe and nStream work nicely and give a good user experience (IMO).

Phil

What I was getting at is that not everyone hears a difference between WAV and other file formats and as Phil pointed out in the other thread, the difference between codecs become irrelevant, if the nDAC is fed via SPDIF.  

Also, feeding the nDAC with files via USB will hardly offer you any of the benefits associated with streaming. Unless you are willing to spend huge and purchase the NDS, I'd either go for an NDX or ND5XS+DAC, both will sound very good and any difference is probably more a question of taste, rather than one being "better" than the other. You might even find the ND5XS to be very satisfactory on it's own in a first instance.

Good luck

tp

What he said. Using USB sticks as a routine file source would drive me bonkers.

Sorry fatcat, I didn't think you did say that... Otherwise I wouldn't have posted.. Oh well we agree then 

Zinger, out of curiosity with the NDX -> NDAC/555PS where is the redundant powersupply? In my setup all three powersupplies are used in  the key parts of the Audiio chain and benefit the overall sonic performance.. of that superb set up..

Now if a powersupply is added to the NDX, then we have a redundant powersupply, but to me such a setup changed the sound slightly but it didnt  give sufficient benefit to warrant another box in my setup, But... I have heard ndx/555ps -> ndac/555Ps into 5 series amplification and into a pair of titans and to my ears it clearly surpassed the CD555 on CD in terms of energy, vibrancy and emotion but I realise saying such things on here gets some people a little excited.

Totempole, in my NDX->ndac/555PS set up feeding FLACs is not transparent at all  in my system. I therefore feed my NDX wavs, flacs sound 'digital' and little unnatural especially on compressed music - they just dont sweet and analogue ( that might be different with the NDS) However I do therefore transcode FLACs at the upnp server into wavs and I can't then reliably hear a difference when then played through my system , so I assume there is no difference or my ears/system are not discerning enough.

Simon

SinS, just goes to show how varied results can be. I couldn't hear a difference between WAV, FLAC 0 & 8 and AIFF when served by ASSET UPnP as such to my ND5XS/nDAC/555PS/SN/HC/Totem Forest. Maybe on very high end systems then? But Guido can't hear a difference between the different codecs on his nDAC/555PS/282/SC/200. So how high up do you have to go? Or is it just our ears then? Don't know. In any case, I have come to the conclusion that it makes a whole lot more sense for me to worry less about the details and to listen to more music instead. But that's just my own jurney and I guess everyone needs to travel that road by himself to find out what works and what doesn't. It's easy to lose sight of what really counts though and it seems to me that a lot of the stuff discussed here is just getting in the way of people enjoying their music on the system they have.

Best

tp

Hi TP, I know thank goodness we are all different.

I think speakers are quite key, I ran Harbeths for a while and a lot of this sort of stuff was filtered.. I couldn't hear differences, but I ultimately found  the Harbeths  not precise or insightful  enough for me.. I sold them and bought back into ATC.. Wonderful detail and insightfulness, but quite revealing of these nuances, which some criticise them for... As you say we are all different..

Ahhhh Sandy Denny has just come on the NDX  .. Georgous...

Simon

Apologie accepted.

Can I suggest you actually read the OP.

Zinger,  I like it  I can't argue with 'low efficiency' but it sounds good dorsn't it??