USB to S/PDIF file delivery

Peter

I've used an m2tech Evo with good results into a nDAC. It however lacks that magic ingredient, that draw you into the music quality, of the NDX.  I've not heard a USB to S/PDIF that does get near the NDX for sheer musicality. 

Just as a suggestion have you seen how the control app you use looks on an i-pad. Maybe the larger format will be big enough to display the full track listings.

I do know your problem. To help myself to some extent I use a lot of subfolders for my Classical music. I file by 'Composer' with subfolders for each name where I have multiple performances. So My Walcha and Hewitt recordings of Bach are in separate subfolders under 'BACH'. Where it is a unique recording I also have a folder for filing by 'Artist' so for example I have a subfolder named 'Gregory Sokolov' in which his cd of the 'Diabelli Variations' resides. I know my way round these subfolders so it is pretty easy to zero in on the particular tracks I am looking for.

regards

Geoff

If you're already using the nDAC, how about a different streamer?

Elsewhere there are good comments about the SqueezeBox Touch and souped up Sonos ZP90.

You might loose out on the last element of musicality of the NDX, but the increase in usability should offset that. Plus the trade-in on the NDX will pay for a power supply for the nDAC.

Of course once Naim employ a software engineer (one should do) then maybe n-stream might become usable.

Hello Steve,

Very grateful for your information especially as the Evo together with the Audiophilleo 2 were the two units I was leaning towards.

So, although not what I was hoping to hear I will certainly be cautious, as we would not be prepared to accept any loss in the great sound the NDX/nDac/XPS2 is currently giving us.

I am very unsure as to the quality of the computer required. Whilst I can find several manufactures of music production PCs there are none I have so far found who offer specialist playback machines. This is where I can imagine major problems could arise.

Did you use a dedicated computer with the Evo?

Thanks again,

Peter

Hello Geoff, thanks for your input.

All our problems stem from the fact that we cannot have any wireless device (as well as certain other devices) in our home. This is absolutely non-negotiable unfortunately, but is a small price to pay in the overall picture.

The screen on the NDX is just to small for our needs, although obviously is as big as can be fitted on the unit. If it were possible to attach a larger screen that worked in tandem with the supplied screen this would also work; but of course this is not possible. For 99.999% of purchasers this is probably of no consequence whatsoever, we know and understand this.

I have stored our music basically as you describe, ‘Composer’ – ‘Title of Work’ – ‘Performer’ so for us this is say:

Mozart –

         Piano Concertos –

         Alfred Brendel

          CD1 No’s 1,2 & 3

         CD2 No’s 4,5 & 6

          Etc.

          Mitsuko Uchida

          CD1 No’s 1,2 & 3

          CD2 No’s 4,5 & 6

          Etc.

          Violin Concertos

                    Arthur Grumiaux

                    CD1 …….

                    CD2 …….

          Monica Huggett

                    CD1 ….

                    CD2 ….

This generally works quite well; I will study your system further when I have a quiet moment to see if I could gain anything more from it.

Regards

Peter

@ Maxi Me

You do realise that your initial suggestion is bordering on heresy don’t you?

After 35years or so of listening through Naim kit we could not consider such a thing .

My post above also explains why this is not an option, neither is n-stream.

The NDX has a tuner installed which gets a lot of use so it would stay whatever we do, the nDAC has an XPS2 attached but I will reluctantly concede that a 555ps would be better.

Regards

Peter 

Peter

Never been dogmatic, therefore heresy is possible.

Given your circumstances, have you considered the HDX SSD? The interface is much better than the NDX and you could plug in (physical cable, not wireless) a usb touch screen if you need a bigger view. Plus you get the ability to queue music and create playlists.

Yours faithfully 

Maxi Me

Peter,

In that case, have you considered replacing your NDX with a UnitiServe? While Naim doesn't promote it as such, it is also a streamer and provides internet radio. You could attach a monitor of an appropriate size to it and control everything either by mouse or an IR remote, or a computer wired to your network.

With the 1 TB Serve (or the solid state version), you would set it up to see your NAS as a music store. Alternatively, with a 2TB Serve, you could move everything onto that and use your NAS as a backup. 

The UnitiServe is a dedicated computer that will give you far better SQ than the options you mention in your first post.

Jan

Would it not be possible to wire a small netbook on to the network and have a  upnp controlpoint on the computer and use it to have the upnp server you are using now stream the tracks to the ndx?

Almost any computer will be able to perform this task so it should be a cheap solution.

Claus

As long as the NDX is in the system, then it remains the only control point, I believe. So the problem of the small screen size remains.

Jan

Maxi Me……….We did originally consider an HDX until we heard the NDX. Both of us were immediately drawn to the NDX on sound alone, which is why we would be reluctant to give it up completely.

Hi Jan………….. Well to be honest the US is the only item in the Naim range I would not be keen to own. This is entirely based on personal prejudice and nothing to do with its ability or sound quality, which I have not experienced. I do not like slot loading drives or the power supply.

However, on the basis of the replies so far it seems that my original idea is not likely to provide an acceptable solution. I am grateful to all for this information.

The NS01 would I guess operate in the same way as you describe for the US, have you ever used one of these? Thinking of your suggestion of using a computer to select music on the US/NS01, which would be sent directly to the nDAC for playback, could the track that is being played be followed on the computer screen as the tracks change? A further advantage I guess, being connected to the network the NDX could use the files via UPnP if this proved to sound better than the Dig Out when track info is not necessary.

Interesting idea Jan, thank you. Will give that more thought.

Hi Claus………. Unfortunately as Jan says this will not work, as it’s not possible to ‘Push’ music to the streamers via UPnP; they have to ‘Pull’ the music from the server.

Regards to you all

Peter

Peter

OK I understand your mandatory requirements. Maybe I am missing something but here is a suggestion for you to check out. It would require a Netbook PC running some software from Illustrate Software who are the dBPowerAmp people ( Mr Spoon).

Basically as I am sure you are aware they do Asset UPnP a media server that can run on a PC and scan a NAS via a wired network connection. Go here:

http://www.dbpoweramp.com/asset-upnp-dlna.htm  (....or if the link gets removed 'Google' it.)

The other important piece to this suggestion is to try out 'Asset Control' which is a complimentary control point that runs on a PC.  It can sit on the same Netbook as Asset UPnP and use the wired network connection to 'call' the music from your NAS for he NDX . It is a free download which can be found here:

http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/sh...?20897-Asset-Control  (.....or it is mentioned at the very bottom right of the Illustrate home page.)

I have run it. It has a nice full screen interface which can show track listings in a reasonable size window instead of the  Album art thumbnails shown in the image on the web page.

This would assume you had the PC by your listening chair powered up and on a  network cable. Asset UPnP 'remembers' the tracks it has logged in its last Scan of the NAS at PC shutdown so when the PC is started up again it is quickly up to speed again.

If it looks interesting as a way that would work for you I can go into more detail by e-mail.

regards

Geoff

Hi Geoff

Many thanks for your detailed post; it’s very much appreciated.

The setup that you suggest would be exactly our ideal setup and method of control, but sadly does not work.

The Naim network players are not designed to operate in that way and do not respond to control points, the player has to select the music to be played; you cannot select the music and then send it to the player.

I tried running this setup when the Qute was first launched but thought the failure to run correctly was because the CP was in the early stage of development, later Naim confirmed this was not possible. I should perhaps stress for clarity that I am referring to streaming via UPnP.

What don't understand is how the n-serve app works given the above. I can only assume that it talks to the player in some way instead of the server. Whatever the method used I am amazed that it is not possible for a computer to do the same thing, but its not apparently. I might even break the habit of a lifetime and buy a Mac if that was the answer, but as its not I can relax.

Regards

Peter

Here's a screen shot showing track titles for the same record.

How about a UnitiServe / NS01 / HDX and a DAC?

Phil

Hi Phil

I will ask our dealer to arrange a demo of whichever unit he can get hold of.

Thanks again to you both.

Regards

Peter 

Sorry about that Peter.

That's what comes owning a Linn KDS instead .

I assumed the NDX et al worked the same 'UPnP' way that the Linn does.

regards

Geoff

Peter

I recall this thread from not so long ago:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/15504822870983908

I talks about a MAC app caled 'QuteControl' which apparently works with the NDX.

I have sent a link to this thread to Julian H who started the earlier thread. With a bit of luck he will be along to comment.

Of course it means buying a MAC  ( I got a Mac AIR not so long ago and love it)

Geoff

Hi Geoff

That's what comes owning a Linn KDS instead

Oooh you now how to hurt!

That’s the Linn extensions isn’t it? For usability I doubt any would argue that they have an extremely good method of controlling their kit. I especially like the fact that because the playlist is held on the player opening a second control point populates the playlist on the new CP.

We are not complaining in any way about the control of our units, we were very aware of our limitations before buying the NDX having owned the Qute for 15 months or so prior to this. We find that the sound is so compelling for us that we were, and still are, prepared to accept this for as long as necessary.

But things are moving on all the time and if we are able to find a new method that will help with this one issue, then that would be great; if it proves not possible at this time than we will continue as we are.

I recall this thread from not so long ago:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/di...nt/15504822870983908

I talks about a MAC app caled 'QuteControl' which apparently works with the NDX.

Ah, now that looks very interesting Geoff, just the kind of thing I had in mind but was not available when I looked a while ago.

I may be bloody-minded at times, but hopefully not a complete fool , if buying a Macbook to run an app that works is the answer then so be it. I will get our son-in-law who is a complete Apple maniac to have a look at the app, he may even bring one of his many Macs down for us to try it.

As ever, thanks again for the information. It looks like we may have two definite ways forward to investigate; very helpful indeed.

Regards

Peter

My understanding (or miss understanding) of the way the NDX works, is that the server on the PC/Mac is controlled by the remote application that then sends the music to the NDX. Not that the remote application controls the NDX and the NDX then asks the server to send (pulls) the music to the NDX.

The Sooloos has a nonwireless interface and is a server, could that work as a control point for you?

Regards

Huw

Hi Peter [and thanks to Geoff for the heads up]

I do indeed use the QuteControl app on my Mac computers, controlling music selection on my NDX to good effect. It is rudimentary but does the job without fuss so I recommend this as a good option so long as you have an Apple computers. It also appears to have DAB control too but since I don't have this on my NDX, I can't test it.

Cheers, Julian

Here is a pic of my desktop with the app on it. Obviously the volume and mute don't work on the NDX. For those functions yo would need a UQ/SU.

Hope this helps, J

Say what? I'm sitting here using a PC running an Asset UPnP server controlled from an Android UPnP control point streaming to a Naim Qute.

You can select the music and then send it to the player.

The newest firmware is better than earlier versions, but they all worked. Some UPnP control points are better than others. I run mine this way because it's quite hard to get unprocessed sound out of a Windows machine - even with WASAPI I find it unconvincing. If you stream the data from the machine then there's no degredation there. You don't need wireless, a bit of Cat 5 cable will suffice.

Maybe other Naim machines are different, but this one works fine with streamed FLAC. UPnP isn't a fanboi issue : it's not a proprietary standard, so you can use it from anything to anything. Linn's Kinsky doesn't actually work too well with the Qute, but that's not much of a concern as there are many better free alternatives.

I've no interest in Naim moving into the software business myself; the whole point of UPnP is that you can use best of breed.

Peter,

Are you absolutely positive this is the case?  If so that seems very strange.  How does this work when you use a Naim server, with or without nSERVE app, and a Naim renderer?

Can you not select tracks on the HDX panel and have them play on an NDX?

This is not the way I understand UPNP/DLNA to work.

Thanks,

patrick