USB to S/PDIF file delivery

Hook, I agree it's wierd, and certainly unexpected. I will try and repeat today and see if I can get any logs from Asset Control.

Simon

Hook, Peter, Aysil, I have just tried Windows Media Player version 12 reading my Asset DLNA server. It has a feature called 'Play To' and it finds my NDX. So far it seem to work work well, it puases then plays - so far no lock ups and it allows me to create custom playlists - albeit from my PC - its rather good actually

So I suspect it may be an Asset Control problem that is causing it to freeze rather than Naim.

Simon

Simon, it's not just Asset that has the issue. JRiver is the same. It locks up after a track or so if you use the PC CP.

I tried WMP but found it impossible to get it working with FLAC files, even after downloading the FLAC algorithms. I could not even play a single FLAC on my NDX, it would play other types of file. 

I also spoke to Naim and Support confirmed that you can not run the NDX from the descktop CP - as Peter highlights.

Regards

Huw

I am fairly certain Aysil that the n-DAC was part of the mix that day. It was the combination, NDX/n-DAC/555ps/HDX that we liked the most. I think the HDX could have been changed for the US or NS01 without changing the overall sound, but not having heard those options I could not say for certain of course. We only have an XPS2 power supply but, the XPS was not demonstrated.

Regards 

Peter  

Hello Hook

Hope you don’t mind me commenting but I don’t think this is a bug issue at all, simply that the boxes are not designed to work in that way. Naim are totally open about this, their boxes do not respond to queries from CP’s. The streamer selects the music and ‘Pulls’ it from the server.

From what I have been able to establish from other sources is that usually a control point requires the streamer to respond to its requests so that it knows that the music is being played. I am sure that there must be more to it than this but looking at the CP logs shows that the lack of response it what causes the CP.s to stop/freeze.

I guess we could equally blame the control point for requiring this information; there seems little point as using an Apple device seems to overcome the issue. Naim have invested heavily in the Apple way, which was probably a very wise commercial decision.

It will be interesting to see if Simon’s trial with WMP 12 works for very long, I’m of to see if I can run it on XP, they may have changed how it works?

Hope you have fully recovered and are well.

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter -

Am doing so much better -- thank you for asking!

To my way of thinking, if Simon's WMP "play to" experiment proves stable over time, then it shows that the NDX is capable of being controlled by at least one wired PC-based control point.  And if that is the case, then Naim was wrong to make a categorical statement that this type of setup could never work.

In the past, I think we can all agree that Simon has proven to be a rock-solid resource for technical explanations.  If he says that WMP is working, I trust him 100%.  And I think this puts the ball back in to Naim's court.  If the NDX can work in push mode for even one wired control point, then it should, in theory, work this way for all wired control points.   The only difference that makes sense to me is that WMP has fewer bugs than these other software packages.  Given, as you've said, that the vast majority of folks are using wireless CP's, directing their renderer's to pull a music stream from a server, I don't think it is very surprising to hear that you and others are hitting some lightly used code paths.

Of course I could be completely wrong, and there could be something completely unique about how WMP works in push mode.  Would be nice to hear Naim comment on this specifically, as it does seem to contradict their answer to you.

Hi Huw -

Simon is using Asset as his UPnP server, and Asset is doing FLAC-to-WAV conversion on the fly.  Not sure if that is relevant, but perhaps this, or some other setup difference, can explain why WMP "play to" is working for his NDX, but not for yours?

ATB.

Hook

Hi Hook,

I was using Asset recently because I couldn't get JRiver to play playlists. I ended up trying to use JRiver as a desk top control point just to get it up and running correctly. That's how I came across the problem. I have not tried to use a desktop CP with Asset as it worked well from my iPad.

I gave up on WMP some weeks ago and removed it from my PC. FLAC /.wav transcoding may have worked but I did not try it.

Playlists were my biggest bug bear and by changing the title from Favourites (which for reasons I don't understand caused Asset and JRiver to freeze) to Top Tracks that issue now seems solved.

I only really want to use nStream to control my NDX / JRiver and, at the moment, that seems to be working. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and looking forward to the iminent nStream application update.

I hope Peter has a bit of luck with his Mac.

Regards

Huw

Hi Hook

Very please things are getting better for you.

I feel that we should be a little cautious here as Naim responded to a specific situation that I described and if I understand correctly from Huw’s post on another thread he received similar information. They never said it would never be possible, but then I did not ask that question. I am not as informed as many of you chaps but perhaps if a control point were to be written that did not require a response from the streamer it may work? However, could a firmware update change this again? I ask because the update around Christmas, in my case at least, made the situation even more severe.

I am with you 100% with your comments regarding Simon’s invaluable advice/information. I am sure there are many of us who have gained knowledge and understanding from his posts and appreciate his efforts. I think there is a central core of contributors on the forum that are extremely good and go to extraordinary lengths to help. For the less knowledgeable like myself, they are an extremely valuable and appreciated source of  help and information.

Crikey Hook, looking at your post again I have just realise that you may be thinking that I was implying that Simon was wrong or I was bring critical in some way. Can I assure you and Simon that was certainly not my intention; it never entered my head before posting that it might read that way. I apologise if this was the case. I find that WMP 12 requires Windows 7 to run so again I am unable to run it at this time.

Hi Huw

Glad to hear you have sorted your problem. I am sure that the Mac will be equally successful thank you.

Regards to you both.

Peter   

HI - well WMP has played through two albums from the desktop CP controlling the NDX with no incident, so it appears those wanting a desktop solution have a valid option. Don't know of a reliable MAC solution though.

Simon

What settings are you guys using in your DLNA server in JRiver?

There are a few options.

Try "never convert" first.

Then try "convert" with one of the 4 uncompressed settings.

this MUST work.

No worries Peter!  And apologies if I came on a bit strong.  This is just one of those situations that, if someone had asked me if it worked, I would have said "of course!" without giving it a second thought.  Unfortunately, it appears that the exception is proving to be the rule.

Good luck man -- hope you have a good working solution soon.  Let us know!

Hook

The kids have been down today with a Macbook Pro loaded with PlugPlayer. It was up and running in minutes and ran for about 6hrs. We have had a couple of crashes but this could have been down to me not yet understanding what is going on. One or two oddities but the music keeps playing.

PlugPlayer seems quite happy to stream to both the NDX and Qute at the same time, but in truth it is the NDX that I need it for; but nice to know. I will have all day tomorrow to give it a good trial and learn a little more of how the OS differs from windows.

A question if I may, every time a track moves on, the screen on the NDX lights and displays the new track information, is this normal behaviour?  Could/should this be turned off? The screen is set to extinguish after 1min.

Many thanks to everyone who has helped me look for a solution to my problem. It is really nice to be able to identify all track information for the first time.

Simon……. Thanks for your info about using Win 7. I do have a new copy sat on the shelf but decided I need a new machine to run it on, time to spend some money it would seem.

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter, I believe PlugPlayer  sends each track one at atime to the NDX and so that it is why the display lights up each time unless you switch it off completely. It also means  the device running PlugPlayer can't sleep, or the playlist/album will stop at the end of the track.

Simon

Hi Simon….. Yes, I would say your thoughts are absolutely correct, closing the lid does stop playback at the end of the track. I have switched the screen timeout to the min – 10 secs. I have been playing around with the Mac all morning and whilst I would be the first to admit that I don’t know the Mac system the darn thing is driving me crazy.

My statement that it is happy to play to both the NDX & Qute simultaneously certainly cannot be repeated today, often crashing the app if I attempt to switch between players.

The worst problem though is the fact that it is chopping the last 6secs off of every track, most disconcerting at times.

It is also not so reliable in its operation, i.e. the track time counter rarely works, it reports the stream as 1411k JPEG on redbook files but seems to do better on 96kHz WAV files reporting these correctly, strange. However, none of these things really matter as it can play music on the NDX, if only the track cut-off could be sorted. I’m not sure at the moment if I would wish to invest in a Mac if it can’t.  

Regards

Peter

Peter, do you really mean 1411k JPEG? That is a strange thing for it to report.

Hello Simon………….Yes, it is quite strange, the 1411k I assume is the bitrate? But why it reports JPEG when all files are delivered in WAV is unfathomable to me.

I tried Foobar again yesterday with the latest UPnP module installed and I get exactly the same info displayed on screen. Incidentally, Foobar seems to chop the last 3 seconds from the end of every track, my wife reminds me that this has always happened, which I had forgotten. I also reloaded the latest Asset UPnP server and Control Point software, which still only runs for about 5 secs before moving on to the next track.

The Mac has returned home for now, but my daughter took a liking to the Mac Air that Geoff & Allen had suggested and intends to obtain one in the next couple of weeks, she will then clear all her work from her Pro and I will have it back for a longer play.

I must admit to being rather disappointed that the Mac + PlugPlayer were not able to play without cutting those 6 seconds from the end of each track as if it were not for that it would be a perfectly workable solution. However, I will try again when I have the opportunity with the Mac. Re-booting system for now which will return things to normal.

Regards

Peter

IHi Peter, I assume this error appears on the Qute? Might be worth checking you have the latest  firmware installed on your Qute, or give Naimsupport a shout.. Either way it's wrong and a bug and you don't know what other issues may lurk.

Yes we quite like mac air netbooks  as well, although they are a little fragile, we have already had to replace one of them. But for naim streaming we like the iPhone or iPad as the preferred control devices.

Hi Simon…… The error has occurred on both units screens, although I cannot reproduce the Jpeg, I get ????? today, but do not have the Mac here at the moment; I do assure you that Jpeg appeared all the time that the Mac was in use.

The Qute firmware was applied early January as the factory reopened after Xmas, This is the latest as far as I am aware. The NDX was delivered just a few days later, so again has the current firmware.

The guys at Naim have been tremendous from before the Qute was in production helping us re: the removal of the wireless functions in both our units, I am not sure what is causing this spurious info: being displayed but I am SURE that it is the way I am trying to send tracks to the players; I will sort this with a little more time.

My real problem is the end of each track being cut by about 6 seconds. I put Mozarts Cosi Fan Tutte on last night as this plays gapless, however it was quite un-listenable to as the performers were being cut of mid flight as it were, quite unpleasant. I have no idea at the moment what could be causing this to happen. The same tracks play perfectly when selected from the front screen of each unit and pulled direct from the NAS.

Regards

Peter