JRiver Compatibility with NDX (DLNA vs UPNP)

Hi Huw

How are you using the system? Streaming, but how are you selecting/controlling the music playback? Are you saying that JR16 worked for you but JR17 does not?

Others will no doubt help more but would be useful to understand your setup better.

Regards

Peter

I can't remember havin MC16 issues but did not use it much.

I control with JRemote, My River, WebGizmo & nStream. None of them work. I don't think they are the issue though because the desktop fails to work correctly when i send info to the NDX. More info here:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interac...ex.php?topic=72156.0

Cheers

Huw

Are you sure that "Repeat" and "Shuffle" are off????

Yes, repeat is off but shuffle is on sometimes - because I want to shuffle the songs.

Have you got JRiver working perfectly with naim gear (which one) in a similar situation to myself?

Could you explain your set up please?

Regards

Huw

Hi Huw……….. I have not loaded J River for a while now and have never used any of the addition controls that you refer to including n-stream so have some difficulty following all you write on the JR site.

However, if I understand you correctly and you are trying to select tracks on your computer and then telling J River to play those tracks on the NDX via UPnP, this will not work. Furthermore, in my experience this will cause the NDX to need re-booting to settle it back to normal operation. Naim network players are designed to ‘Pull’ the music from the server and do not respond well to having music ‘Pushed’ to them.

If you have been using JR in this way it might well be worth re-booting your system, NDX, computer & app and seeing if using the app only, anything changes. Can you then select and play as expected your choice of music using the remote and NDX front screen? If none of this works as it should it may be worth loading another UPnP server (Asset for example) and see if this does what you require.

Hope this may help.

Peter

Hi Huw,

The few days my NDX was working I used J River 17 without problems (I however didn't use playlists but just selected different tracks on pc). As opposed to what Peter mentions I had no trouble selecting a track in J River and make the NDX play it even though it sometimes took some seconds before the NDX would play the song.

Hi Kaver,

I have had no problems getting the NDX to play a single song from my desktop and I have never had to re-boot (assuming this means turn off and back on).

I seem to remember using MC16 to play full albums and having no issues. It is only since I started using playlists that problems have appeared (I can't be 100% on this as I have used other servers too).

Now, even trying to play an album is an issue. It starts OK on the first track but then, if I try to move to a further track it hangs for anything from 5 to 30 seconds and sometimes it crashes the desktop software. It also seems to switch from USB stick to UPNP with no warning and starts up MC17 desktop when I'm using only the server, There seems to be a fundamental problem but it may well be only on my PC.

It's frustrating because I've had iTunes working on various PC for ever and never had a single operational issue.

Peter, thanks for your input. I will reboot everything and try again this evening.

Regards

Huw

Hi Huw,

Now that you mention it, I remember that if I switched to another input on the NDX while J River was still playing the NDX would switch back to the upnp input.

Hi Huw

Playing a single track from your computer may well work fine; it’s getting it to play continuously and reliably that simply won’t work.

Have you updated the NDX to the latest firmware? I ask because it was when I did this on the Qute, my NDX was delivered with the current firmware loaded, that this issue really came to the fore, on the previous version it would usually play a little longer before crashing the system. On contacting Naim they informed me that it was not possible to do this.

Have you looked at the log files in J River? I am certainly not expert at reading these things but in both Kinsky DT and Asset control (I don’t recall looking at JR logs) it was obvious that there was no communication between the program and the Streamer, this was causing the CP to stop working.

You may be interested in having a look at this thread where we are discussing alternatives to UPnP delivery; I am looking for a workaround for my own situation.

If you do re-boot the NDX (switch of for a minute and switch on again) please avoid trying to send tracks from the desktop at least until you can check if you can get n-stream etc working as expected. Selecting from the remote and front panel works fine I assume.

Regards

Peter   

Hi Peter

I'm not sure how to extract a log but will see if I can find out.

I do have the latest firmware on the NDX.

I will do as you suggest and try to play only from the controllers this evening (after a reboot) to see if that helps at all.

I may have to look at other servers if that does not work, maybe Twonky. It will be a pity to have wasted the cash on JRiver and the applications for my iPad though.

Regards

Huw

I've been messing about with the various contollers for the NDX this evening. The JRemote seems to allow me to play a few tracks before ending up in a loop but kept on loosing traction with the server and re starting to the choose a server screen. WebGizmo is very basic and seemed to get stuck or react slowly to new commands for track chnges, it's not really a viable remote IMO.

Of all things, nStream is the most stable. It is staying connected and plays albums through without ending up in a loop. It also played a through a small playlist of 10 songs in order. If I tried to play my Favourites playlist of 250 songs it crashed back to the choose a server screen.

The wife wants to watch Master Chef now so I'm relegated to the study!

So resetting the NDX and not trying to use the MC17 desk top does seem to have brought on an inprovement. I wonder if the Favourites Playlist is corrupt - it took me ages to get my 250 songs on the list. I will rebuild it and see if it still has problems.

Regards

Huw

Wait.... where are you creating these playlists?  How does MC know they exist?

Does your issue happen when simply playing from an album within MC?

In the top left, single click on the NDX "zone", now play an album.  What happens here?

I would find it to be VERY strange if you cannot send music via the MC server.  If so it is definitely an issue with Naim's implementation with the standard. 

-patrick

Hi Patrick,

I create playlists using MC17 desk top. They work perfectly well within the desktop player.

Playing albums to the NDX from the desktop causes the desktop to play the first track then lock up. It will move on to the next track after a few seconds. if i keep trying to play tracks then it wil lock up a little longer each time until it crashes.

As you use JRiver with your Naim equipment and have no issues, are you saying there may be an issue with the NDX implementation?

Regards

Huw

Huw,

I dont have any Naim renderers for exactly this reason.  And I have a SWEET silent HTPC (asrock) so am happy to tether my PC to my Naim DAC.

What if you select music from the NDX panel itself.  No controllers being used.

How about if you use NStream app?

As far I can have tried, MC sees, and plays correctly to, all UPNP renderers.  I would be surprised if MC deviated from the standard in any significant fashion.

So yes, I would assume this is an issue with Naim's implementation of UPNP.  I could certainly be wrong of course.

Can you try with Foobar and see if you can repeat the issue there?

-Patrick

Hi Hew

What you are saying regard to stability is exactly what I found. Because I cannot use wireless devices I have not seen or used n-stream, so can’t advise on its use.

I can say that after about 14 months of trying I could not resolve this.

It should be possible for you using n-stream to have your NDX function perfectly well. If you try other means of control that you find don’t work please bare in mind that you may need to reboot the NDX to settle things down, this has been my experience.

If you are continuing to follow the thread that I referred you to above you will see other alternatives are emerging, it may be useful to you.

Peter

Thank you Peter.

I'm getting very frustrated at the moment. It should not be difficult to do what you (and I, to some extent)want to do.  They have done it for years on Squeezebox.

I only really want to be able to play albums and build (in the server software) and play playlists from nStream. If your information is correct and the JRiver desktop (or any other) can not control the NDX then for me, that is not a major issue - apart from the $60 I've spent.....

I would be interested in finding out which PC server software is 100% compatible with nStream and can play albums and playlists.

At the moment I'm looking to go back to using just large USB sticks and controlling those with nStream. Have you tried that? It works very well and gives none of these issues (no artwork though) - mind you, you have to build one with your favourites on. You can get 32Gb, 64Gb and I think 128Gb sticks at reasonable prices. I use 3 of them. 2 with CD level and 1 with HiDef at the moment. I think I may get a 64Gb and transfer my Playlists to that.

Cheers

Huw  

Hi Huw

From what I recall from various threads in the past I am fairly sure people are using J River & n-stream successfully. Indeed almost any UPnP server should work; my situation is caused by my not being able to use wireless.

You surely must persevere, as USB is not a long-term solution as I am sure you would agree.

If you open JR on your computer and load a playlist, or build one – you may need to save it, - if you go to the NDX and navigate to playlists can you then play it all through from there? I expect that you can in which case it can only be settings in either JR or n-stream.

If you wish to try another server then AssetUPnP is a good choice, its available on 30day trial but continues to operate after that time with restrictions, these may not bother you.

Peter

I spoke to Naim today to ask about the communication issues that Peter highlighted and they confirmed that there is no return comms with the server. The person I spoke to also mentioned that an update for nStream is fairly imminent, but could not be exact about timescales.  He also mentioned there will be more playlist functionality in the new release. 

Well, in the end I downloaded Asset. It's very Heath Robinson, compared to JRiver but it did get up and working quickly and easily and I was able to control it using nStream. At least to play albums.

The downside is it's poor use of playlists. After some reading I managed to find out that you can export JRiver playlists to Asset. I tried a test playlist of 10 tracks, which worked fine. Then I exported my Favourites playlist of 250 songs. It would not work. I was not sure why so built a new one of 99 songs. Still no luck. I could not see why it would not work. Anyway, for reasons best known to fate, I decided to change the playlist title to Top Tracks. Now it works in Asset but, amazingly, it also works in JRiver.

How can changing the name of a playlist suddenly fix all the issues I had?

So I'm now controlling a playlist from both Asset and JRiver from nStream.

Regards

Huw

Hi Huw

That’s really good to hear, glad you persevered.

Renamed your playlist? Guess we all need a little luck at times.

Peter