Meet Me in London -- weird vinyl pressing

Simon

As you know we love delving into audio details and splitting hairs once we get the bit between our teeth on this forum.

Please keep producing hi res downloads of choice recordings from the Naim library. In spite of our nit picking I am sure we all agree as you comment that MMIL at 192 is a superb download. 

regards

geoff

Simon,

Normally, audiophiles' Holy Grail is to duplicate exactly the artist's intention.
It's interesting that Forcione decided to *spice up* the original recording.

Thanks for the info. Was the original recording analogue or digital?

HI, I know this is an older post but I just recently purchased the 24/192khz WAV (album) and the LP. I use an AMR DP777 DA converter feeding one of my Graaf GM200 amps and a custom set of speakers. On the vinyl side I have an Artisan Fidelity custom Next Generation Technics SP10 MK3 turntable with a Kuzma 4 Point Arm and Ortofon MC Anna feeding an AMR PH77 Phono stage. 

After hearing Take Five at my buddies home on his KAB modded Technis SL1210 MK with Denon 103 cartridge I was blown away. Sooooo, being the impatient type, I first downloaded only the 24/192khz WAV of Take Five. IT SOUNDS GREAT!!!!

Then my LP showed up.... UH!!!!! Houston we have a problem!!!!   It is FLAT and MONO sounding and no one is going to tell me this is normal. So after several back and forth emails with the Naim cognoscenti (very attentive folks by the way, thanks Simon ) I didn't feel like I was getting anywhere on the LP front but they did offer me a 30% discount on the full digital download, thanks

I, however, really wanted to hear the splendid vinyl I heard at my buddies home. Due to the extensive remastering process which is quite impressive, I was told that most likely what  I was hearing was the excellence of the newly mastered hi-res digital file compared to the original analog master. I had a problem with this as what I heard at my buddies was enough to make me go flying to order this album. I received an album that sounds the same whether my phonostage is set for mono or stereo (I can do this on the fly via remote control).., no change in the soundstage. 

To prove out my theory that a problem exists with some of these albums, I had my buddy Mike come over and bring his copy of the album. 

I will digress here as  I played a dirty trick on my all analog loving buddy. He is convinced that digital can not sound completely pleasing, so when he arrived, I had the album on the table and spinning, and once he was in the sweet spot I cued the album... He was all grins, foot tapping and thoroughly enjoying what he was hearing He volunteered that is sounded "great".., I further asked if anything sounded wrong or out of place... "No, it sound perfect" he exclaimed.  I then dropped the BOMB!!!!! I tricked  my buddy, he was listening to 24/192khz DIGITAL and LOVING IT!!!!!!  Ok, now that I have proven that we CAN be (not necessarily are) BIASED; back to the issue at hand

BTW, I had the remote control in my hand, so when I lowered the arm on the table, I covertly hit play on my remote control and my Mac mini sent its magic to the AMR DP777 dac 

NOW, I put my real album on (Take Five) and his face fell, he looked at me instantly and said yeah something is WRONG!!!! Just plain horrid sounding, flat, lifeless, muted, mono and just wrong. We put his album on and WOW!!! Very very close to the digital.., alive, obviously STEREO and very very dynamic!!!!!

NO question in either of our minds, something is amiss on my copy of the LP. I contacted Simon at Naim again and to his GREAT Credit, under these circumstances he readily agreed their must be a problem with my album and is sending a replacement. He also stated they will be looking at the production chain/line to try to find the problem. 

All this to say that if you think your album is sounding lifeless and mono chances are you have a bad pressing.., it is NOT SUBTLE.....

I hope this helps someone and I just want to say, problems DO arise in production lines but NAIM has been great about supporting me with this. It is also noteworthy to mention that these are re-pressings, albeit, using the original analog masters. 

I will continue to purchase and recommend their products. 

I will post here once I receive the replacement album in about another week

Thanks,

Don

Haven't you guys seen the marketing video explaining the 192 mix. It's interesting I think.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXnAGIwicE

Nriz: if you read and are responding to my post, then.., yes I have. I own the digital copy and I have wathced the video. I also stated in detail that I compared my album to the digital copy and my buddies copy of the LP.  I maintain that there is a physical flaw with some of the albums. 

I dislike the 24/192 mix. I prefer to listen to my CD rip!

Quoting the artist's intentions and how he fancied making creative changes (I note that Sabina wasn't mentioned) is all very well. The same happened with Genesis' 2008 remasters and they're tripe because they sound different and change history. Led Zep remasters in 1991 were also tripe, and they were done with Jimmy Page and Robert Plant at hand.

You shouldn't mess about with something that worked. Artistic freedom is one thing, but once you made your mix, and especially if it's a successful result (as was the case with MMIL), why change the original AND deprive the people who love the original from having the best available version? I don't get it.

Put it this way - if the 24/192 mix had been the original mix, I probably would never have bought it, or the record. I find the 24/192 mix of MMIL has far too much emphasis on Mr. Forcione when he should simply be accompaniment (if very good accompaniment) to the vocal (interesting that he was there, no mention of her being there). The hard panning just emphasises the artificial nature of the recording process, just like they used to do in the 50s when people's hifis were expected to be crap so better to give the separation by separating the parts into the respective channels. It was a poor choice in my view, and a missed opportunity.

It would be great if we could have the original mix in 24/192, but I can't see that happening...

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Does anyone actually favour the hard panning on the 24/192 mix?

I actually do not prefer one type of panning over the other. I find that the digital copy sounds more like a mike-feed if you will or as if I were in an intimate resturaunt setting with the two performers up-front center stage and playing live. The album (a good copy of the album) sounds equally wonderful, just in a different way, it is not panned as hard but it also does not sound reminiscent of a mike-feed as does the 24/192khz version. 

I did receive the second copy of the album and it is weird. Some of the tracks are OBVIOULSY better than on the first album I bought but then others are still not right, (Take Five ) for instance is a little better on the second album than the first, but NO-WHERE near as good as my buddies LP. Visions is far better on the seccond album sent to my by Naim than on the original album I ordered. At this point, I am just going to try to buy a used copy of the album in hopes that I can get a copy of the originail pressing.

audiofun,

Can you read off any dead wax info on your vinyl?

Today I listened to both the 24/192 file and my vinyl again. 

The latter is miles better and curious if the dead wax info varies from my copy.

Kuma: Hi, I am not sure what you mean by reading from the "dead wax". Are you asking if I can find some codes which may indicate a different pressing or date-code.., etc. 

Kuma is asking if there is any lettering in between the lead out grooves after the last track on each side.

Regards,
Frank.
All opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinion of any organisations I work for, except where this is stated explicitly.

Yes on both albums (they are the same). Side One: LP 068  A-1-1 XX PS XX

Side Two: LP 068 B-2-1

Their are a lot of X's and what appear to be V's and or M's also on side 2 of both albums but very difficult to read as the charcaters overlap each other. 

audiofun,

Thanks for that. It seems the deadwax info is the same as mine.

Those overlap XXXs looks like someone tried to erase the number underneath. On the B side, 'NA 1LP' & '021'  are under the Xs. 

so looks like your pressing and mine use the same stamper. It's possible that then mine and your friends are earlier pressing and yours might be a later pressing from the same stamper. ( which then makes sense that later pressing sounds poorer than earlier ones )

Perhaps Simon can clarity what's the Naim pressing plant practice is.

Simon mentions there will be a remastered 192khz version of the LP but good god.. I wish they would go back to the original mix without the ping pong effect for that.