anymore ... SuperUniti vs. NDX/202/200/Hicap comparisons?
Posted by: Naim727ca on 26 May 2012
Hi there, I have been reading through the "search" command of the SuperUniti vs. XXX. There was only one post on the SuperUniti vs. NDX/202/200/Hicap/Napsc.
I currently have the 202/200/Hicap/Napsc ( sold my CD5X last week on Audiogon ); however, I am still need to save up to make the purchase of the NDX. Then, came a friend's advise, to sell all of my Naim 202/200/Hicap/Napse and use that fund to buy SuperUniti. I am using it with Harbeth C7. Some what undecided. My Naim dealers around here do not have the complete set of what I have and SuperUniti to do a proper A/B test. I do have limited fund, even if I were to upgrade, it would be only upto 282/250.5 max in the distance future.
Some folks here also using the analogy that separate black boxes are better than ONE, etc... I am not sure. Some more data would be appreciated, so I can start planning my upgrade. Thanks.
Posted on: 26 May 2012 by engjoo
I have compared the superuniti with ND5XS/NAC152/NAP152. The seperates are clearly better in an A-B comparison. However, I do feel the proposition of a one box convenience is very strong. It is also very fun to operate from the n-stream app as all the controls from source selection to volume are there. Suggest you try listening to it and if possible given a chance to do a home audition. One factor you may use to decide is if you plan to change or experiment other amps in the future. For me, that is an important consideration which swayed me towards getting ND5XS/NDX.
Posted on: 26 May 2012 by Yippedidou
Sold my Snait/HC2/nDac/XPS for SuperUniti/250 running into Harbeth M-30. Frankly, I really love it. Sound is deeper mainly because of the 250 giving tauter bass, better control of the mids and low mids. High are pretty much the same and this is perfect because i hate agressive highs. The general impression I have is that the system is more balanced and has more air around the different instruments. This is particularly evident when I listen to jazz. Collateral effect is not to be neglected as well... 2 box Instead of 4 wich is great. Less cables so less everything (cable dressing, connectors, etc), 2 PLs instead of 4, no Hi-line. Overall, I'm convinced I made a good move because was getting tired of the upgraditis disease. This combo gives me great sound, enoigh musicality and PRAT, and will free my future savings for more music...
Posted on: 26 May 2012 by Stefan Vogt
hi naim727,
the obvious advice: ask for a home audition of the SU. When you find something missing, or you find the SU getting too hot etc., then go for separates (the ND5XS would save you some money, and is very, very good).
If you like to remote control from 1 point, then both SU and NDX/5XS give this, see my post
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by naimUnT
Hi Naim727ca
You probably read my post about the 'downgrade' to a SU which I am enjoying very much! I started with a Uniti, then added a 200 and before I knew it, I had no less than 6 boxes!! My Hifi rack was beginning to look like a dealer's showroom, not to mention the untidy cables and two remote controls! Yet there was a nagging doubt that I should climb higher up the Naim ladder ... I was smitten with the upgrading bug!! About that time I realised the inconvenience my family had to endure with two remotes! It was a nightmare!
One day, I woke up to the fact that I had more but less at the same time. After much thought, I got back to my roots and the days of sheer contentment and craved for simplicity! Soon after, the SU was introduced and when I read the features I wished Naim had introduced it much earlier!!
When I auditioned the SU in my home over an extended period, comparing it with the 200/202/HC2/NPSC/NDX, I realised how good the SU was in comparison. I was shocked and remember doubting how could this be! If I were to conduct 10 sessions of blind A/B testing between the two, I seriously doubt if I could pick the more expensive 10/10 times! I would challenge anyone if they could get it right 100% of the time! The SU pumps out 10 more watts and the SU's preamp's digital control is quite revolutionary, and certainly better than the 200. I know this sounds like heresy but this is what my ears heard! The SU is roughly at the level of my multiple boxes and with a 250.2 in front if the SU, I feel it pulls ahead of the Pte/power combo, not by a wide margin but the SU sounded better.
I settled for the stock SU and I am glad I got rid of the ore/power. My Hifi rack is so neat and cables are nice and tidy. I think the crux is to ask whether you have plans to upgrade in future. Are you the sort that will want to climb up the Naim ladder, constantly striving to get better SQ which inevitably will lead you to add boxes! My personality and makeup was such that I craved for simplicity. The path is therefore pretty clear with the SU. My family are spending more time listening to my SU either watching TV or a DVD or playing with the Sony PS3! I feel a certain peace and contentment with my SU that I've never felt before with Naim gear. I know that there will be some out there who will criticise me for questioning the conventional wisdom of more is better. I am a believer that sometimes less is more!!
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by CraigB
The one benefit of the SuperUniti is the single box. That's it.
It is outclassed completely by the NaitXS/ND5 combo.
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by Stefan Vogt
Craig: +1 !
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by Naim727ca
Thanks 'NaimUnT' and 'Yippedidou' for taking your time and effort to extend your experience in such a detailed article. All of your views will be well taken. Like I said, I do have limited 'fund' due to family obliations and etc. The upgrade path for me, will take time due to the financial aspect of these 'nice' toys. Havin said, that have ONE box SU will allow me to enjoy the music sooner, then, keep saving and saving until I can financially afford it. Anyway, it will be decided soon, at the moment, it is still up in the air. Thanks again. At least, I was able to sell off my CD5x before it loses more value, and start saving for the 'new streamin audio system'. Enjoy the music everyone.
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by naimUnT
Naim727ca: you are welcome! I should add that my speakers are pretty efficient and has a benign 6ohm load. My previous MDX was a pre-192 board. As you know, the SU has the latest 192 board.
Craig B: I have not listened to the XS/ND5 combo but I feel sure that if I were to ask you to listen to that and the SU via blind A/B testing, can you honestly say you can pick out your combo 10 out of 10 times?? The operative word is 'honestly'.
Posted on: 27 May 2012 by engjoo
I wanted a one box solution for a long time but decided that a two box (ie streamer/DAC and integrated amp) will bes'more suitable as it allows me to explore other amplification options in the future.
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by CraigB
naimUnT,
In my room with my speakers, for the month I had both on dem, I would pick out the difference 100 times, and that's honestly, based on what I was hearing.
It's not because I'm golden eared or more expert than others or a more 'critical listener', whatever critical means in that regard because i don't listen trying to pick out differences.
No, it's because the SU sounded lifeless compared to the XS/ND. To my ears it just sucked the life and prt out of the music. Perhaps there was something wrong with my example, and I'd certainly be prepared to be proved wrong, but right now my view is firm.
If you're just looking at sound quality and enjoyment, for almost the same money, and forgetting the obvious advantages of the one box arrangement, then the combo delivers more.
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by caftan
Can it be due to the fact that "All amps sounds the same" on Harbeth? Did Yippedidou and naimUnT do a A/B test at the dealer shop and reckon that SU is clearly better than the combos?
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by MangoMonkey
The NaitXS and the SuperUniti are different. Both are very easy to live with and equally good, but different.
I find the NaitXS faster, but rougher.
The SuperUniti is rounded. Maybe it doesn't sound as 'fast' because it's not rough like the NaitXS.
Doing A/B tests isn't a great idea: Your ears need time to get used to a certain sound.
At my dealer's recently, I heard a NDX/555PS -> 552 -> 250. Now, here you finally had the best of both worlds. It had the speed of the NaitXS, and the rounded nature of the SuperUniti.
If you don't want to go all the way up Naim's ladder, just pick one. Once you get used to the sound, it'll be great.
Another perspective: depending on your speakers, one might be better than the other. Look for Totemphile's posts on a similar subject.
When you listen to the superuniti, just listen to what it is, without trying to compare/contrast it with something it's not.
Maybe one or the other will have better synergy with your speakers?
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by caftan
MM,
What I meant by A/B test at the dealer place is to ensure that the multi black boxes are well setup and optimized vs a single fuss free box. There should be difference between the two be it better or worst.
Anyway its a no brainer to compare between A and B when the price difference is not even close. But one thing for sure is that you wouldnt go wrong with either combo for pure musical enjoyment.
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by Yippedidou
Originally Posted by caftan:
Can it be due to the fact that "All amps sounds the same" on Harbeth? Did Yippedidou and naimUnT do a A/B test at the dealer shop and reckon that SU is clearly better than the combos?
I never said that the SU was better than a combo. In fact I do believe that 282/200 or 282/250 must sound better... I sure do hope so because of the much higher price tag when you add the nDac and XPS. Don't know about NDX/XS... Maybe its better, maybe not. I never listened to a Naim combo in my set up. My point of reference is Supernait/HC2/nDac/XPS which I had for 2 years (nDac and XPS 1 year). I can say that the presentation and the enjoyability of music is, for me and in my set up, pretty much the same with the SU. I will agree with MM that its a rounded sound, pretty much like the SN. I like that... Smooth...My opinion of course....
I added a 250 to my SU because I wanted more grip in the mid-low and lows as I often drive a pair of Dynaudio Contour 2.8, much more difficult to drive than the Harbeth M-30. I benefit from the power amp also on the M-30 (more authority in the lows, cleaner bass) and on a pair of Neat Motive 2 that I also use when I feel like it (less jazz, more rock). I also have a pair of Totem Model One sig that pop out of the closet once in a while (not often I agree - not sure I like the highs on those). So my opinion isn't based just on Harbeth.
Finally, I'm not looking for the ultimate performance in hi-fi. I look to enjoy music when I listen to it. And right now, the SU does the trick for me. Bonus is: iRadio, DAB, less boxes, less cables, less set up, less money in hi-fi, more in music. Hey it even has an alarm clock... 
Posted on: 28 May 2012 by naimUnT
Caftan: I listened to the 200/202 combo and compared them to the SU over an extended period in my home. Yes, as Yip has mentioned, most would agree that the more expensive should sound better. I caused quite a stir when I opined that I felt the SU was equal if not better than the combo! If I were to compare with both on an a/b blind test, I don't think I would have picked the combo as the clear winner 100% of the time! What does this show you? That the SU is a very able performer. The bass was deeper with the SU for sure. When you factor in one box, less cables, throw in FM, iRadio, DAC and streamer, I feel that the SU is all the Hifi I will ever need. I only added a Stageline and HC2 for phono and that brings the box count to 3 as opposed to 6 with my previous setup. Add convenience and I think for those looking for a simple but competent system will need not look further than the SU. I did not add a 250 cos I felt the additional benefits did not justify the cost. I went out looking for a pre, power, DAC, streamer and radio and I found ALL of this in the SU. I believe that in the Naim hierarchy, the point of diminishing returns starts after the SU!
