Naim/Mac UPnP problems

To be honest James, UPnP on a Mac is very simple - especially when using Majestic or Playback (the other servers you mention are awful). I use them with my Mac and iTunes and it all works flawlessly and apart from some album artwork issues (easily fixed) it's worked very well.

How are you storing music in iTunes, ALAC, AIFF ?. How is the SU and Mac connected - via a wired network, wireless ? Does internet radio etc work ok via the SU ?

James

Hi James,

Thanks for the reply.  Yes, I am storing most of my music in ALAC and AIFF.

The SuperUniti and Mac are connected via wireless and internet radio works fine.

Hello Gary,

I don't quite understand your reply (x's 2) but it doesnt sound very nice.  All I know is I bought a Naim SuperUniti and I have a Macintosh with iTunes.  I also know that I know that I am a semi-idiot and know next to nothing about Audio equipment and only a little about computers.  You sound like you are a hot-shot, expert at both disciplines though.

What I do know is that I have read a lot of posts mentioning the need for a workaround when using Naim with a Mac and I have tried almost everything mentioned with only limited success.  Perhaps I have a faulty Superuniti?  I really dont know.

The retailer who delivered my speakers & was also supposed to set up the Naim with the speakers; however the technician they sent didn't even bother setting up the streaming capability because he said he "didnt think it worked well with Mac" and in any event he claimed "had never set one up on a Mac".

This was alarming information to hear and the first I had heard of any issues with Naim not working well with Macs.  I'm not necessarily blaming Naim (I actually think the primary problem is my ignorance) but still would think that this product would better work with Macs somehow, even if the "shortcomings", as you put it, is Apple's fault.  Although, I have no idea what that really even means.

Thanks,

James

Hi James,

I'm not sure then what is wrong here.  Music is stored in ALAC and AIFF.  Connection is via wireless and internet radio works well.

Thanks,

James

Hi James - i'd temporarily try a wired connection. Wireless seems to cause all sorts of issues - are you wireless from Mac to Router and wireless from Router to Superuniti ?. One thing you may also want to try is downloading a UPnP player onto your iPad / iPhone - you can then check that the UPnP server on the Mac is working correctly and then start to rule out faulty network / Superuniti issues. 

James

James,

this is just meant as a word of sympathy because I don't think I am much more expert than you are, but have a MacBook and I know that UPnP may not be simple with Mac as a rule, because of Mac, but Playback is a very good and effective little piece of software that is working fine here - I am not streaming with a Naim unit, though, but with an old an cheap Pinnacle Soundbridge into a Tivoli Radio.

So, if you mean to have patience and bear a few more days of annoyance and learning, please stick to Playback. BTW, they have a very good customer service, so why not contacting them? I have had a problem (lost my codes when wanting to install Playback on a second Mac) and a guy named Johnny answered quickly, kindly, and promptly sending me the codes again.

Hold on for a while before making any decision based on irritation, many here are experts and will probably help you to get out of disappointment and into a pleasant experience.

Have you checked all you can check with your network?

Cheers

Max

Thanks Monkey Jim,

Playback is now not working at all.  It wont recognise iTunes which is baffling because I purposefully kept Playback and deleted all the others because this was the one that seemed most reliable (with problems though).  

Fwiw, I have actually emailed Playback support twice about the problems I have been having and received zero replies.  Do you have the email address of that Yazsoft Project Manager by chance?

I have reinstalled Majestic and so far so good and working with n-Stream.  Fingers crossed that this is all I need but Majestic has worked before and then gone wonky.  

If other people are using Playback and/ or Majestic seamlessly then it has to be me.  Either I am doing something wrong, or my computer is problematic or I have a faulty SuperUniti.  If I knew more about computers/audio I could at least somehow isolate the problem but I just dont know enough.

Is there any way to bypass this UpNP nonsense at all?  If I bought a UnitiServe or HDX would things work better?  Unfortunately, over the past month I have moved house (and country) so my Naim retailer is now quite far away from me.  

Thanks,

James

Hi James & Max,

Thanks much for the replies.  My SU is next to my iMac so I could use a cable to connect.  My router is actually quite a distance away from both.  Could this be a problem?  All other devices where I sit (iphone, ipad, wife's computer have great connection though.

Can you tell me which kind of cable I should use and where it plugs into?  I know this must be a ridiculously stupid question but I really am not 100 percent sure and admit to it.

I will email Playback again.  And I will un-install and reinstall Playback considering the good words about it.

Thank all for the help.  It really means a lot to me.  I hesitated posting about my problems for a long time because I was embarrassed about how ignorant I am with audio issues.  I've never had speakers or an amp before or really any good piece of music equipment and overwhelmed a bit.  

I bought dbPower Amp to see if I could convert a few thousand FLAC files I have that the SuperUniti wont play but I can't even figure out how to do this.  Its probably silly easy but theres no manual that I could see that might help.  

Regards,

James

Hi James - From what you say. i'd suspect its network issues with two wireless hops. You may be in a difficult wireless environment - neighbors with wireless networks, other traffic on your own network. If Majestic is working ok then leave that alone for now. You'll need two Ethernet patch cables - one to connect the SU to the Router and one to connect the Mac to the Router - that will rules out wireless network issues.

James

A friend of mine with a Naim system put it very simply - 'Enjoying music in the home should not be THIS complicated'. Recording on a reel-to-reel tape recorder was a piece of cake compared to setting up a home network system on which to play music.

I had a dabble with a MacMini/DAC system using iTunes driven off my iPad for a couple of weeks and gave up. Nothing but problems and the CD player sounded better anyway.

In fairness, it appears (from the experience of happy friends) that a dedicated Hi-Fi streamer is a lot more stable, but the thought of installing a network system and getting into all that ripping-related farting about again fills me with dread and depression.

Clearly it works for some, but I'm finding it a whole lot simpler, more enjoyable, and less stressful to simply play CD's or LP's.

Everything related to streaming needs to stabilise a lot more before I shall be interested, though I have to say that the Naim NDS sounds very good. I just can't be doing with all the network and ripping related variables necessary to use such a system.

As ever; it's a matter of what works for the individual. Beware the appeal of 'new-tech'. It may or may not work for you.

John.

James,

I know how exasperating network issues can be. I still am not using the Mac for replaying my proper music collection on my proper music system, but have decided to study the matter (although not gifted for informatics, you are born with it even if informatics were not there when you were born) because I knew how complicated it was and didn't want to be totally caught by surprise when the time came.

So, I fear I can't help you more than this now, although I would say that if internet radio is working ok, the problem seems to be somewhere else than the network. In time, I think you'll sort it out.

Best luck with your problem and be patient,

Regards

Max

You have spent a lot of money on the box, get your dealer to send along someone competent to install it.

If they can't, just send it back and get a Sonos ZP120 or whatever the equivalent is from the Squezebox range.

If you bought new from a dealer, get them back.

John - whilst i can understand where you are coming from, there really is no black art involved in getting streaming (or indeed computer playback) to work well. Just like your 555 system needs a bit of TLC in setup to get it singing to the best of its abilities, a little thought in getting a simple network infrastructure in place will pay dividends in the long run with a streaming setup.

Naim really need to - 

A - Get their dealers fully up to speed with this.

B - Put some simple setup guides on the website as Linn have done to explain how to get a simple network up and running and a few example setups - ie a simple PC setup, a Mac setup, a NAS setup. 

James

Yes, return the expensive Mac and get a cheap PC for under $300 USD that can do everything you want and more.

This is the dealer's fault and neither Naim nor Apple are to blame and certainly not yourself, James. 

The retailer has a responsibility to ensure what he sells you works.

Contact Naim directly for advice. 

I have UPnP working perfectly with a Mac. 

Playback is one UPnP server that works and there are others. 

If the dealer is incompetent (I.e. can't install the SU so it works) then I would return the SuperUniti and get my money back  - it doesn't work in your set-up (you have consumer rights: you don't need to settle for rubbish service and if the technician behaved as you say then they sent a complete idiot - not what I'd expect if paying £3000+). 

We must not accept low standards from retailers - in my case I don't get them because I've luckily found a superb independent retailer. There are such ones around. 

Get your money back on your SuperUniti and ask Naim to recommend a dealer who can help you. 

Take your Mac along to this dealer and ask him to demonstrate and show you exactly how it works. When you are happy then make an arrangement to buy the SU from him provided he can successfully install it for in your home. 

Accept no less 

Absolutely no need to buy a PC - you don't need it you have a Mac. 

Why spend more money to compensate for second rate service. 

I will switch from Naim the day I have to use a PC to get anything to work with a Naim system.

I'm not convinced Naim has got the usability right yet, the SQ is great, but if you if doesn't work rel;iably what is the point. They need to make sure Mac and PC users are equally well supported unless they are happy not to have Mac customers (which I don't think is the case).   

Remember - it is not your fault - you are the customer. 

You are paying the retailer and it is his problem to deliver a working system. 

All the best and I hope you solve your problem soon. 

If you do find a good dealer it is worth it - to me a Mac Mini playing 24 bit music in to a Naim DAC/555PS sounds better than CD555 playing the same thing down sampled to CD. So I think streaming is the way to go and at its best is the equal of top of the range analogue player like a Dolby S cassette deck playing a recording from the LP12. 

Guy

Thanks for the replies and I'll stick with it.  The dealer is not at fault exactly.  I bought it from him just before I moved house (and countries).  

The installer of everything was a well known retailer where I live whom I bought the speakers from;  they delivered the Kef speakers and said they were capable of intalling the Naim to the speakers without any problem, etc.  They charged about £200 for this and in the end, the only thing they did was unbox the speakers and connect the internet radio as they didnt realise I had a Mac.  

I'm hoping that the Majestic I have just reinstalled works and will do the same for Playback and hope they are no more problems.  Unfortunately, my router is literally 12 meters(in a direct line) from my computer and SU.  Not an easy task to get this all wired.

Anyway, thanks all for the advice.

-James

Hi James,

I had a few issues setting up a PC to work correctly with my NDX recently.

Some hints I picked up were:

a: only use n-Stream to control your SU (or if you use a PC a similar phone / tablet based controller). if you use the software on your Mac/PC software to push music it can confuse the Naim unit. This came from Naim. By this, I mean don't try to use iTunes to directly control which song or playlist from your Mac.

b: when you change software or control point (eg: n-Stream) turm your SU off and on to reset it. That way, any confusion in the software is removed.

I use 32Gb USB sticks in the front of my NDX and I think the SU has the same facility. Put your music on a few of these and you will not need your network and you can control them from n-Stream. I find it works very well but no artwork is visible. FLAC & WAV work and I think one of the Apple lossless formats. Put a few different types on the stick to see which play.

The mass convertor on dBpoweramp is not in the same bit of software you use to rip CDs. it is a complete program in it's own right. once you find it it is quite straight forward to use. You can follow the instructions on the website if you get stuck. I'm not sure if it comes with the free version.

As others have mentioned, using a wired network is the best way to check if the basic system works ok. Network cable is cheap so getting 12m to connect to your SU will not break the bank. I would suggest buying 15m and a 1m run. Connect your Mac via 1m to your router. Connect the 15m run to your SU. Then only use n-Stream to control the SU for a few days and see if it remains stable.

Good luck

Huw

The main advice I would give and always give to this whole process is get your network in place.

Its actually very simple, and it need not cost mega bucks.

Firstly a decent router. If you are on virgin I recommend an asus RT65NU, ( put the superhub into modem only mode) if you are on BT/a.n other,  get a Draytek.

Then a switch. This really helps.

Run an ethernet lead from the router to the switch

The switch should then feed all your wired devices. I accept this is esier to write than it will be to do, but its time well spent. I have my switch in the loft, it has 16 ethernet points coming from it to feed the house and garage, with some spare. The reason its in the loft is that from the switch you have then the shortest distance to the rooms, all you do is run the ethernet lead from the router where ever that is up into the loft.

Avoid using wireless where possible.

Fix the IPs of all your important devices or reserve them IPs from the router. You may find marking down these addresses helps.

Now, UPNP Can work on mac, however if you have tried a variety of them check your activity monitor (Applications>Utilities>Activity Monitor) And see if any of them are still running processes, you may have a conflict.

In the end give up with the mac, and get a NAS, put this on your network away from the hifi, put music it on it and run its UPNP server. Or get an old PC you can put somewhere other than the hifi, load vortexbox on it and load that with music.

The network is key, 90% of the issues ont his forum are because of poor networks or the dreaded home hub.

The rest is admitadly experimentation, but know this. I have used macs since the applemac 512ke, I have never used anything else at home.

They do not do UPNP particularly well.

This is not naims fault. Developers have just not made as much effort for mac as they have for PC, because when it comes to music and replay, its been iTunes all the way. Look at the amount of music apps for PC then at mac, there is just not a lot, songbird, play a couple of others. Sad but true.

Gary has a good point with checking if the applications are running in the background. Both Majestic and Playback are designed to auto start and sit running in the background and so conflicts can be caused here. You can go into preferences to stop them running, disable auto start etc if needed. 

James

A small diversion into 'Life, the Universe and Everything' territory if I may?

 

There was a superb TV prog on BBC4 last evening. It's repeated on BBC4 after midnight on Thursday, or you can catch it on iPlayer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/b...tv/episode/b01jrlsf/

'Surviving Progress' is riveting and relevant; addressing the problems of modern life and where advancing technology is possibly taking us.

In the early stages of the prog, someone states the brilliantly simple truism that so called progress and change = complexity. We keep building ever more advanced machinery, but in essence, it makes our lives more complicated. Because capitalism and commerce drives technology, we are encouraged to buy 'stuff' - deluding ourselves that it will make our lives better.

Yes; computers, smart-phones and the like are clever, but consider how much simpler your life used to be (if you're old enough!) without them. Another talking-head stated that we are effectively trying to run ever more complicated software on a brain which essentially has not been updated in the last 50,000 years. A staggering thought.

We still have primitive ape-like brains with 'fight or flight' reflexes and suchlike in full working order. So we are trying to cram ever more information and complexity into our relatively unsophisticated brains.

The Hi-Fi relevance occurred to me. The excellent book 'Perfecting Sound Forever' hitherto alluded to hereabouts, details the public performances of Edison 'Tone Tests' in the 1920's. The then technological marvel of the gramophone. Far more thrilling than a modern Hi-Fi show. People were open mouthed in awe as an Opera singer of the day mimed to a hidden gramophone and the audience were tricked into believing that they were listening to the real thing - albeit that the Opera singers were trained to 'modify' their voices to sound more like the acoustic gramophone. We used to drop a stylus in a groove or play a tape and get musical pleasure. Consider what is involved to obtain that SAME musical pleasure now with current technology. Hi-Fi streaming kit is 'sold' to us as the next best thing, but it's too bloody complicated as far as I'm concerned. I'm a certified Hi-Fi nut and I don't want it. Go figure!

The whole programme is beautifully made with wonderful footage, graphics and evocative music. I think I saw Martin Scorsese's name in the end credits.

Every human on the planet should watch it. So called 'progress' is basically screwing-up the planet.

 

Another gem from the Beeb making BBC4 worth the licence fee on its own as far as I'm concerned.

 

John.

Thanks J.N.,

This looks interesting and I will certainly watch this.

Brgds,

James