24bit .wav files not recognised

I'm no expert on this, but it sounds like some metadata is missing.  What is the file format?  Some (eg FLAC) handle metadata better than others I believe.  If you need to edit metadata on a Mac, I think you may need some third party software, but in Windows it is easily done in Explorer.

P.S.  Where did you download this from?

Sorry - should have read the subject properly!  A Wav file you said.  It could be converting to FLAC will help with the metadata.

Hi Nick

Thanks for the response.

I spoke to Naim and support suggested to re-scan within my synology NAS. I hope that's obvious on the operating interface as I haven't had to do any scanning when ripping my cd's.

The wav files were downloaded from the McCartney website. I would of thought that the data within the files was sufficiant. I've never done any editing to metadata either. Not sure how to do that.

I'll have a play later and see what happens.

Thanks 

Hi Kage -

What do you use to do your ripping?  Quite often, that same application has some built-in editing capabilities. 

But if that is not the case for you, then you could go shopping for an app that does this (e.g., sbooth's "tag" for Mac users, or any of a number of PC apps -- MediaMonkey, Tag&Rename, and so on). 

Lots of older forum threads on tagging, so the search engine would help you to learn about some options.

Good luck!

Hook

Your Mac is accessing the folder using a network file protocol such as AFP ... I suspect that your Synology UPnP server isn't seeing the new files. Have you rescanned the folder? Does your Synology even support 24bit WAVs?

Phil

You are aware that WAV files do not support any form of tagging(*) aren't you?

Phil

* WAV-Pro does support tagging but is not widely supported and the inclusion of ID3 tags into WAV files is not an "official" format and is generally unsupported too.

Hi Hook

So my setup would be: iTunes directory path pointing to my music folder on the DS212J NAS. This works fine when ripping CD's and I am able to select my files via my network player or by using the nStream app. The other night I felt it was time to try out some 24bit music. I downloaded Macca's latest remaster RAM into the same music folder on my NAS. I hoped it was going to be as simple as that, but my ND5 XS/nStream app wont see the files even though they are obtainable through my mac's network directory or via the Synology online interface.

When I get home later, I'll try a re-scan as Phil and Naim have suggested. If that doesn't work I'll try moving the wav files into a seperate folder. After that, I'm stuck again. Hang on! Will it work if I open iTunes and dump the wav files in the library? The directory path is set to the NAS and iTunes my do the correct organising of the files. I can't say for certain, but I don't thing the files appear in itunes when it's open.

Oh my!

Thanks

Just remember that the ND5 (and therefore n-Stream) can *ONLY* see the files that the UPnP server tells it are there. If they're not showing up on the ND5 (and therefore n-Stream) then I'd say that it's the UPnP server in the NAS that isn't recognising them - that's where you need to be looking.

iTunes support for WAV files is abysmal by the way...

Phil 

Phil: So if WAV files don't support tags (is that the same as Metadata?) doesn't that mean n-stream won't pick up artist, album etc even after a re-scan?  So it might appear as "unknown" or something?  This sort of thing has happened to me.

Nick, I think what Phil is saying is that whether it will pick up any available metadata provided with the files will be down to the upnp server.  Some will do this no problem, others won't see anything.  In my experience, Asset seems to handle WAVs best, whether Naim ripped or ripped via eac or dbpoweramp.

Hi Nick,

n-Stream doesn't "pick up" anything - it's *VERY* important to understand how UPnP works if you are going to have any chance of working out where things aren't working as you expect.

The *ONLY* device that n-Stream "talks to" is the Naim Streaming Device (Uniti / UnitiQute / SuperUniti / ND5XS / NDX / NDX) so n-Stream "sees" exactly what the Naim Streaming Device sees - the n-Stream app simply interrogates the Naim Streaming Device. If the Naim Streaming Device doesn't have the information then n-Stream won't have the information.

Similarly the Naim Streaming Device (as it is a UPnP client) *ONLY* "talks" to a UPnP Server - it does not scan folders or read files from the network by itself ... so if your Naim Streaming Device is only showing some of the files that are in a folder then it isn't the Naim Streaming Device that isn't seeing them, it is the UPnP Server that either hasn't picked up the missing files yet or cannot read them.

On our UPnP servers we rip our files as WAVs and keep a separate database of all the metadata on the Naim Music Server itself - this allows us to have all the information (and more) that is normally associated with tagging but using the ripping format that we wanted to use.

A sensible UPnP program, if it has files with no metadata, would ideally try to create the track number, title, artist and album from the filename and folder names but whether your specific one does or not you would need to contact the authors to find out. (I know that iTunes doesn't and simply imports all your WAVs as one huge album.)

Phil

Yup - Asset does try to create the basic track information from the folder structure and filename...

Phil

Thanks for the detailed explanation Phil.

So it's the file on the UPnP server (Twonky on a QNAP NAS drive in my case) we need to look at.  The question for me is how do I fix things if Twonky refuses to be "sensible".  For instance, I have files where I have edited the ID Tags in Windows Explorer (being unable to do it on a Mac) to enter the artist, album and track names but the artist comes out as "Various" or "Unknown".  The "author" by the way is me, since these are FLAC files derived from an old LP via Audacity or my own recordings.  In other cases I have done exactly the same thing, but the artist is shown correctly.  It makes no sense to me.

Anyway, sorry, I seem to be hijacking your thread Kage.  Let us know how it goes for you.

In that case I would convert the WAV file to a 24/192 FLAC (given that that's what we were discussing but now you say your files are FLAcs) and add the tags into that ... the thing is you really do need to know what you're doing as - for example - the "Track Artist" and "Album Artist" tags are different and individual track artists are not generally supported by most UPnP servers. (The "Author" tag is not the same as "Artist" - author is the person or program that generated the files...)

Cheers

Phil 

Phil,

No, the original poster (Kage) was talking about a WAV file.  Mine are FLAC already.

I do a right click on a file in Windows Explorer and select "Edit ID Tag" This opens a dBpoweramp edit window showing Artist, Title, Album, Track, Year, Genre and Comment.  That's all.  I enter the first four.  As I say, this has worked fine in the majority of cases, but in a handful it hasn't.

Is there a better way of doing this?  Thanks for the help.

So I've had a little play and still haven't been able to play my 24bit wav files on my network player (nd5 xs) via my NAS diskstation.

I've check the files by loading one onto a usb stick. Plugged straight into the ND5 it works-sounds great too. I then activated playback on my mac mini as this is what I used prior to getting the synology. Via playback I am able to selected the album and tracks on the ND5. I think playback is streaming the files through iTunes via my diskstation as the directory path is set to the NAS in iTunes' preference.

So, although my new 24bit wav files are stored in the NAS, the media server within it cannot see them to stream to my ND5 (as pointed out by Phil). I can't see anywhere that says re-scan, but I have seen re-list. That doesn't fix the problem though.

I'm really stuck and getting fed up with this...

What is your media server?  With mine (Twonky) I go to Support / Maintenance and click "rescan content directories" - if that helps at all?

Nick

I think the synology has a built in server. I haven't installed any third party programs. All I've done is activate the 'Media Server' which gives me folders for either photo's, video or music.

Taking into consideration what has been said on this topic and consulting my local dealer I'bve worked out the issue. Synology has the ability to re-list not re-scan. I assume this is the same. Re-listing doesn't do anything to help me. With the files viewable in the synology online interface directory, the shared directory on my mac and in itunes via the directory path to my NAS, there had to be a problem with how the NAS was reading the files. Being new to the ND5 XS and not knowing my way round it, I was only searching for my music by artist/album in the synology's media server, but after explaining the situation to the dealer, he knew exactly what was wrong. He told me to search by folder which took me to my itunes folder on the NAS and there it was-all my music plus my new 24bit download. So I guess if I want to search by artist/album in the synology I'd have to edit the files, but I'm happy to search by folder now.

It's been a learning curve. I appreciate everyones help. Through the advice and information given by you all, I have got my head round it. It's hard when I sit looking at my screen not knowing anything about this, but with a little time-actually alot of hours, and your help I'm sorted.

Thank you.

Kage,

Good - glad you are at least able to find the music and enjoy it!

I've found it all a bit of a learning curve too.  I think if you find a way to edit tags, you should be able to find it by artist / album too, though you might need to convert the WAV file to FLAC first.

Nick/Engjoo

Is Flac a better format than Wav-sound wise? Same for MediaMonkey-better than iTunes?

Opinions seem to vary on WAV vs FLAC.  I went to a Naim presentation at Grahams hi-fi in London recently.  Naim were using WAV files and seemed to be saying this was the best choice.  But a bloke from Grahams said he preferred the sound of FLAC.  When I bought my Superuniti from them I was advised to rip my CDs to FLAC so that is what I've done.  I understood WAV and FLAC should sound pretty much identical, but I've never done a comparison.  Both are lossless but FLAC is compressed I believe.

I've never used Media Monkey.  I think engjoo was just suggesting it to use to edit tags.  If you are using dbPoweramp for ripping, you can use this too to do that.

Media monkey is for editing tags of flac files that has been ripped previously or converted from other formats. If you are ripping fresh from CDs, dbpoweramp will allow you to review or edit the tags.

Flacs are lossless and should sound exactly the same as wav but Naim's NDX's white paper suggest resources decompression process actually introduces noise to the streamer/converter.

I am not keen to use wav as I believe the benefits of using flacs far outweighs the benefits of using wav.

The most obvious one would be wide recognition and support for this container format and its tags.

File size is not so much an issue anymore with low cost for storage.